Looking for other "pilots"

Nub_Pilot

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Jeremy's new interest
I am actually looking to see if there are other submarine pilots on this site. That would mean that they served on Virginia-Class submarines and qualified as pilots.

I am looking for a comparison from submarine to PPL qualifications, how much was similar?

I understand there will be difference, but curious on the dynamics of actual flying a plane.

Thanks
Jeremy
 
If I understand this correctly, you’re looking for someone who has piloted a submarine deep down in the trenches of the oceans to compare the differences between that and flying a small GA airplane?

Seems like an apples to oranges comparison to me.
 
I am actually looking to see if there are other submarine pilots on this site. That would mean that they served on Virginia-Class submarines and qualified as pilots.

I am looking for a comparison from submarine to PPL qualifications, how much was similar?

I understand there will be difference, but curious on the dynamics of actual flying a plane.

Thanks
Jeremy

Never served on a sub, but can tell you subs spread time on and under the surface and airplanes spend time on or over the surface.
 
Never served on a sub, but can tell you subs spread time on and under the surface and airplanes spend time on or over the surface.

giphy.gif
 
Ryan,
I think there are similar dynamics involved in flying both. As an example, the wings of an airplane cause lift and allow the plane to fly based on speed. Submarines are the same and the various "planes" can carry specific weight based on speed through the water, angle on the submarine also plays a factor in the amount of weight it can carry and still maintain depth.
 
In the big scheme of things there really are not a lot of submarine pilots out there, but I thought maybe a couple would be at least PPL certified and be on this site.
 
I am actually looking to see if there are other submarine pilots on this site. That would mean that they served on Virginia-Class submarines and qualified as pilots.

I am looking for a comparison from submarine to PPL qualifications, how much was similar?

I understand there will be difference, but curious on the dynamics of actual flying a plane.

Thanks
Jeremy

How about Polaris subs. ssbn601


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Pretty cool to hear from a sub pilot. I have. A couple patients that served on subs both older and newer. Tough dudes. Love to hear some stories
 
Never served on a sub, but can tell you subs spread time on and under the surface and airplanes spend time on or over the surface.

They both operate in 3 dimensions


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I've qualified on 2 different classes, LA and VA. Virginia class was by far the best, especially since they use an F-14 joystick for maneuvering. We always joked around that we were "switching to guns"
 
Dude, that boat was gone before I enlisted. In the end "thank you for your service"

Yeah, we were on the cutting edge. I was the Engineer on Blue Crew, 63-66, then one patrol on Edison.


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Yeah, we were on the cutting edge. I was the Engineer on Blue Crew, 63-66, then one patrol on Edison.


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Awesome, I was on a 637 and still think that was the best configured boat ever. With the new ones and all the technology, they must have forgot that people have to sleep on them and crammed bunks anywhere they could.
 
Awesome, I was on a 637 and still think that was the best configured boat ever. With the new ones and all the technology, they must have forgot that people have to sleep on them and crammed bunks anywhere they could.

My first boat was the Carp, SS338. Diesel. The differences were just spectacular. Like going from a lean to to the Ritz


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I would think submarine piloting would be closer to flying a lighter than air craft than an airplane.
 
I believe the Spirit of St Louis had a periscope.
So did/do a lot of former Soviet Union-era fighters and some US Phantoms. But I guess there are more of them underwater than subs in the air.

Nauga,
floating over the top
 
So did/do a lot of former Soviet Union-era fighters and some US Phantoms. But I guess there are more of them underwater than subs in the air.

Nauga,
floating over the top

Unlike our naval friends, in aviation we have yet to leave one "up there."

--Semper Fi
 
Ryan,
I think there are similar dynamics involved in flying both. As an example, the wings of an airplane cause lift and allow the plane to fly based on speed. Submarines are the same and the various "planes" can carry specific weight based on speed through the water, angle on the submarine also plays a factor in the amount of weight it can carry and still maintain depth.

Actually a sub is more like a ballon utilizing bouyancy.
 
You found another here :) All my time was on Tridents (Ohio Class). Your post makes me want to write a lot so TLDR warning!!!

First off, I never recalled us being called pilots, ever. You were either a helmsman and/or planesman or unique watch called the Maneuvering Watch Helmsman. All helmsman and planesman are enlisted. And lets just say you are talking the lowest enlisted ranks E1..E3 and maybe a 3rd class Petty Officer (E4) once in a while.

On a submarine, if you are enlisted and not a Nuke or other 6yr Tech school program your bubblehead life starts by washing dishes (Mess Cook). Those are like 37hr long days and expect to do at least 90 days (sucked balls). While you do that you should be rather motivated to earn your Dolphins and qualifying for a watch. The easiest watch to qualify for is the Helmsman/Planesman. This is a fair amount of time sitting at the stations with a qualified helmsman/planesman right behind you. At all times the Diving Officer Of The Watch (DIVE) is right behind the rest of us and the Chief of the Watch (COW) is right to our left. There is also studying manuals and full motion simulator time.

Ironically, the only time officers actually drove the boat was during their qualifications for either DIVE or Conning Officer(CON)+Officer-Of-The-Deck(DECK). It seemed they just needed to be able to do what they will later be ordering the helm/planes to do.

First off, on all the boats with stern planes (horizontal stabilizer with elevator), rudder and either bow planes or fairwater planes (up on the conning tower) there are no pedals. Yep, turning the boat is done by turning the yoke. So that is probably the fundamental control difference. Obviously the thrust is from the rear and things are moving way slower.

@Nub_Pilot indicated a joystick like control. I believe that control system is more like what a pilot would experience however the actual mechanics of it are not at all like an airplane and probably classified (at least it was when I saw how it was going to made).

So back to the standard setup, for turning: You turn the yoke left the rudder swings left. Unlike an airplane and a lot like a ship as you near the final new bearing you actually need to swing the rudder the other way to check the turn. That is one of the things you need to learn for different 'Bells' (speeds) and different turn rates. So you are not banking the sub to turn. New and faster subs will indeed bank but due to other forces but not due to actual control surfaces. The best example of this is that the bow planes or fairwater planes both move the amount and same direction so no like ailerons.

The maneuvering watch helm job is more stressful. Endless fine course corrections and you enter shallow water, tides and ultimately up the pier and you can never see anything. You pin the stern planes in a partial up position to keep the rudder and screw pulled underwater. Definitely not as fast on the surface. The stern planes seat is empty.

The helm has to do 2 things underwater. He controls turns and fine depth control (up/down). So his job is the most pilot like in that its a bit more task overloaded, especially at periscope depth in heavy seas (hated that, not easy to control 18,000tons in 1ft increments with 15ft waves) or some ops with lots of turns and fine depth control.

The stern planes station mainly does just one thing. Control the ships angle. At low speeds its a pretty quiet boring job. At the highest speeds and a screw-up and you can transition hundreds of feet in a very short time. You can only go down so far and not kill everyone. At high speeds this station also maintains depth control as using the planes up front will majorily cavitate (they won't break off, done it many times) but they make noise that can heard forever away. And it feels like the entire ship will rip apart.

The stern planes biggest emergency if a hydraulic failure, especially in the down position.

At no time does these "pilots" directly control speed. The Conning Officer (CON) or Officer Of The Deck who is also the con tells you what speed he wants. The helm enters it on the engine order telegraph. Then engineering (nukies) do nuclear/steam stuff and make it go faster, slower forward, reverse, etc.

The most fun is high speed runs and being both helm and front planes. Lots at stake, especially when operating very close to other big things above or below water.

I'd love to tour a Seawolf or Virginia class. Probably a bit more like a pilot. But I would say very little skill of helming a submarine helped in becoming a pilot. The corollary would a single officer (PIC) sitting in the seat and doing everything himself including navigation, engine control and monitoring.
 
One thing I'm sure is different between flying a plane and sub. I'm pretty sure there haven't been too many bubbleheads that have landed a Sub.
 
I think the OP specifically said Virginia Class. I'm preparing for another "stuff it" message from him, this time aimed at Sinistar.
 
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You also asked about Submarine Qualifications (Dolphins). I think it took me 7 months to qualify subs. Probably around 250 separate interviews and signatures and then a qual checks with my Chief, The Chief of the Boat, Division Officer and a board with the XO.

There weren't may signatures to get a PPL...but you got to land that plane all by yourself.

A fast, smart kid can probably knock out a PPL in 3-4wks. I don't see how a first time Sub Quals could take less than 5 months or so (re-qual is faster).
 
Fluid dynamics are fluid dynamics, whether the fluid is water or air.

"The Ancient Interface", a scientific symposium on the aero/hydronautics of sailing sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) and the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, was held annually for many years. The "ancient interface" is the interface between air and water, and the presenters were mostly world renown designers of high performance sailing vessels. I attended several of these symposia when they were held at west coast venues, and was amazed at the number of attendees who were both competitive sailors and airplane pilots.

I expect submariners would have similar interests in hydrodynamics and aerodynamics.
 
One thing I'm sure is different between flying a plane and sub. I'm pretty sure there haven't been too many bubbleheads that have landed a Sub.
While on surface transit we once had a Intruder(A6?) come by and do a nice high speed pass (like I mean it was fast and loud) and then he came back around, dropped gear, flaps all hanging out and just dragged it in like he was going to land on top of the missile deck. Then he cleaned it up, passed on the side at eye level, a rock star salute, rocked the wings back and forth and climbed up into the sun. I remember that lookout watch day did not suck. :)
 
Remember, you are rarely "flying a submarine". Although the surfaces have lift they are almost always in the zero position. Yes, they are used to aid in transitioning from one depth to another but once leveled off the Chief of the Watch and the Diving Officer of the Watch pump water in/out to make it neutrally buoyant again. If they see you using the fairwater/bow planes to hold depth they will start pumping. There might have been a rudder trim for he P-factor though (I forget). If everyone does their job right you can stop the screw and the boat will just hover in the water column. But usually takes the computer to manage it (very small water in/out based on vertical velocity and its derivate) but some COW/DIVE guys can really nail it.
 
If I understand this correctly, you’re looking for someone who has piloted a submarine deep down in the trenches of the oceans to compare the differences between that and flying a small GA airplane?
Eons ago, I piloted a sub that was built from a T-33 tip tank. Does that count?
sub.GIF

Full story: http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/sub.htm

Ron Wanttaja
 
You found another here :) All my time was on Tridents (Ohio Class). Your post makes me want to write a lot so TLDR warning!!!

First off, I never recalled us being called pilots, ever. You were either a helmsman and/or planesman or unique watch called the Maneuvering Watch Helmsman. All helmsman and planesman are enlisted. And lets just say you are talking the lowest enlisted ranks E1..E3 and maybe a 3rd class Petty Officer (E4) once in a while.

On a submarine, if you are enlisted and not a Nuke or other 6yr Tech school program your bubblehead life starts by washing dishes (Mess Cook). Those are like 37hr long days and expect to do at least 90 days (sucked balls). While you do that you should be rather motivated to earn your Dolphins and qualifying for a watch. The easiest watch to qualify for is the Helmsman/Planesman. This is a fair amount of time sitting at the stations with a qualified helmsman/planesman right behind you. At all times the Diving Officer Of The Watch (DIVE) is right behind the rest of us and the Chief of the Watch (COW) is right to our left. There is also studying manuals and full motion simulator time.

Ironically, the only time officers actually drove the boat was during their qualifications for either DIVE or Conning Officer(CON)+Officer-Of-The-Deck(DECK). It seemed they just needed to be able to do what they will later be ordering the helm/planes to do.

First off, on all the boats with stern planes (horizontal stabilizer with elevator), rudder and either bow planes or fairwater planes (up on the conning tower) there are no pedals. Yep, turning the boat is done by turning the yoke. So that is probably the fundamental control difference. Obviously the thrust is from the rear and things are moving way slower.

@Nub_Pilot indicated a joystick like control. I believe that control system is more like what a pilot would experience however the actual mechanics of it are not at all like an airplane and probably classified (at least it was when I saw how it was going to made).

So back to the standard setup, for turning: You turn the yoke left the rudder swings left. Unlike an airplane and a lot like a ship as you near the final new bearing you actually need to swing the rudder the other way to check the turn. That is one of the things you need to learn for different 'Bells' (speeds) and different turn rates. So you are not banking the sub to turn. New and faster subs will indeed bank but due to other forces but not due to actual control surfaces. The best example of this is that the bow planes or fairwater planes both move the amount and same direction so no like ailerons.

The maneuvering watch helm job is more stressful. Endless fine course corrections and you enter shallow water, tides and ultimately up the pier and you can never see anything. You pin the stern planes in a partial up position to keep the rudder and screw pulled underwater. Definitely not as fast on the surface. The stern planes seat is empty.

The helm has to do 2 things underwater. He controls turns and fine depth control (up/down). So his job is the most pilot like in that its a bit more task overloaded, especially at periscope depth in heavy seas (hated that, not easy to control 18,000tons in 1ft increments with 15ft waves) or some ops with lots of turns and fine depth control.

The stern planes station mainly does just one thing. Control the ships angle. At low speeds its a pretty quiet boring job. At the highest speeds and a screw-up and you can transition hundreds of feet in a very short time. You can only go down so far and not kill everyone. At high speeds this station also maintains depth control as using the planes up front will majorily cavitate (they won't break off, done it many times) but they make noise that can heard forever away. And it feels like the entire ship will rip apart.

The stern planes biggest emergency if a hydraulic failure, especially in the down position.

At no time does these "pilots" directly control speed. The Conning Officer (CON) or Officer Of The Deck who is also the con tells you what speed he wants. The helm enters it on the engine order telegraph. Then engineering (nukies) do nuclear/steam stuff and make it go faster, slower forward, reverse, etc.

The most fun is high speed runs and being both helm and front planes. Lots at stake, especially when operating very close to other big things above or below water.

I'd love to tour a Seawolf or Virginia class. Probably a bit more like a pilot. But I would say very little skill of helming a submarine helped in becoming a pilot. The corollary would a single officer (PIC) sitting in the seat and doing everything himself including navigation, engine control and monitoring.

You forgot to describe the excitement of doing ‘angles and dangles’. Whoa boy!


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SSN 642, only time I “flew” was during quals. I couldn’t imagine a plane with one pilot only able to bank, a second controlling pitch and a third controlling the throttle, all coordinated by a fourth in overall command.
 
You also asked about Submarine Qualifications (Dolphins). I think it took me 7 months to qualify subs. Probably around 250 separate interviews and signatures and then a qual checks with my Chief, The Chief of the Boat, Division Officer and a board with the XO.

There weren't may signatures to get a PPL...but you got to land that plane all by yourself.

A fast, smart kid can probably knock out a PPL in 3-4wks. I don't see how a first time Sub Quals could take less than 5 months or so (re-qual is faster).

My first qual was on the Carp, as enlisted completed in 4 months. Next qual was post nuke school on the Lee, took 6 months, O-1.


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Does Roy Halladay meet the requirements?
(What? Too soon?)
 
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