Looking for career advice

[drummer4468]

Hi all,

I've found myself at a bit of an impasse with my aviation career, and am open to any suggestions/advice/insight. Long story short, personal and professional life has been a rollercoaster the past couple years, and I'll try to provide as much background info as I can while keeping the walls of text to a minimum.

Timeline overview:
-Been a pilot since 2019, got instrument rated in 2020.
-During this time I had a rather well-paying job/career (non-aviation) which allowed me adequate flying funds.
-Started working on my commercial via GI Bill, but had some difficulties finishing it up due to scheduling and the only VA-certified flight school being 2 hours away.

-Fast forward to 2023, I came across a seemingly great opportunity to start working in aviation mx, apply my technical skillsets, and work toward becoming A&P certed. But I also knew that due to the nature of the job I was in, leaving was a one-way street with very little chance to return.
-I deeply love all things aviation. After lots of option-weighing, I ultimately decided to leave my previous career, take a significant pay cut, and show up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed to my new job in a component shop as an electromechanical technician.
-After starting there, I quickly learned that everything promised in the interview process was an outright lie. The position/program they hired me for wasn't even off the ground yet. So for the next 16 months I was forced to abide by the company philosophy of "it doesn't matter what you were hired for, you'll work where you're needed." So instead of working on avionics and other electromechanical things, I was thrown into rebuilding hydraulics assembly-line style, then moving equipment around, and finally painting floors. Zero progress or any kind of paperwork toward getting certified before they terminated me for a "negative attitude" after a year of begging to do the job I signed up to do.

-Now unemployed in spring 2024, I decided to take the rare opportunity (and clear schedule) to finally finish off commercial with a much more local flight school. It was a big risk, but I had enough savings and credit card headroom to get by a couple months. Terrible decision in hindsight, but made sense at the time..
-Of course training went way overbudget, but at long last I finally passed my commercial checkride in the summer of '24.
-The owner of the school also runs a large aerial survey operation, and graciously offered me my first paid gig!

-Unfortunately it was a rather short window (a few days) to get familiar with the new aircraft, survey equipment, flying techniques, all the logistics, etc before leaving on an important 2-month mission a few states over.
-Well....I bombed the training. It wasn't pretty. The whirlwind of nerves, and pressure of needing to secure income got the best of me. I was fine actually flying the airplane, but really struggled learning to fly the survey lines. This stress also translated into lots of sloppiness and rookie mistakes on the ground.
- They explained that they (understandably) opted to send someone more experienced, but would let me know if they have any other more local work for me.
-There was talk of hiring me into their mx program as well (from before the training), but neither ever really panned out.
-Gotta admit, I walked away from that situation feeling defeated and about 3" tall.

-So in the fall of 2024 I took a job turning wrenches at an auto dealership, where I still am today. I don't hate it, but it is backbreaking work for not much pay. And it's not aviation.
-I regrettably haven't had the funds to fly enough to stay current, much less proficient. And definitely can't afford to put myself through A&P school.
-I've applied to at least half a dozen mx operations trying to "apprentice" toward an A&P, but they all see my lack of certificate and immediately send the TBNT.
-There is a scenic flight operation somewhat near me, but at this point I just don't feel proficient enough to tackle a flying job interview.

If you've read this far, thank you. I don't want it to come off as a rant or sob story. I just feel like kind of an outlier here. I don't see many stories where someone has all the drive and passion for aviation, and willingness to put in the work, but ironically can't afford to get a job in the field. It would be super cool to not feel like I wasted many hours and thousands of dollars on this shiny piece of plastic in my wallet that I can't seem to use. Hell, I'd LOVE to pursue CFI as well, but between training and a ~$1500-$2000 checkride, that's another paywall I can't scale currently.

 

[RyanB]

I don't see many stories where someone has all the drive and passion for aviation, and willingness to put in the work, but ironically can't afford to get a job in the field.

Tons of people in that very position. If it’s something you really want, there’s always a way to make it happen. Can you cut back on some spending elsewhere to save for it? I hesitate to suggest a personal loan. I really wouldn’t go that route, but it’s an option if finances aren’t permitting at the moment.

 

[drummer4468]

Tons of people in that very position. If it’s something you really want, there’s always a way to make it happen. Can you cut back on some spending elsewhere to save for it? I hesitate to suggest a personal loan. I really wouldn’t go that route, but it’s an option if finances aren’t permitting at the moment.

Oh, I’m sure many others are in the position of getting paywalled out of progression. It’s just really frustrating that I’ve tried to keep as many options open for myself as I can, but currently find myself in a financial place that makes them all unviable. Simply ran outta money before any came to fruition.

As far as personal loans, that’s also not really an option right now. Currently strapped with significant debt that I had planned to have paid off long ago, but losing that mx job really threw a big wrench in the works. I’ve already made enough risky decisions in the above post, no need to dig my hole any deeper lol.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

TLDR: Where there's a will, there's a way.

Disclaimer: I don't work in aviation.

If I read your situation correctly:
You're not in a currency/skill position where you'd feel comfortable doing a flying job interview (and your job won't really fund flying hours to improve that situation), so commercial pilot work is out
You're not in a financial position to get your CFI and open up an avenue to flying there, so CFI is out
You're discouraged from A&P stuff given the rejections / "TBNT" letters
You're not in a financial position to put yourself through A&P school, which would improve the marketability at shops
You're unwilling to take on more debt since you've already accrued a significant amount

Taking your situation at face value, it sounds like there's really only one option you're prepared to pursue: continue outside of aviation and save your pennies. If you accrue enough pennies to get back in and you still want to do it, either A&P or flying -- then jump back in.
Otherwise it seems like opportunistically pursuing the A&P "apprentice" path by sending out resumes and seeing if one lands (and pays enough) is the only alternative.

One thing I'll mention: I'm not sure where you accrued a ton of debt in your personal journey, but not all debt is created equal. Racking up debt to buy consumer trinkets and nice cars and trips is not the same thing as investing in your skills and education to improve your own earnings ability. There's limits, of course.

In that respect, if I were in your shoes and I knew for sure that I wanted to be in aviation as an A&P and the only thing standing in the way was tuition in a program, I would borrow to make that happen. That's assuming I knew I wanted to do that for sure and I was willing to keep a positive attitude and do what's necessary in the job to succeed. Same with CFI. Because frankly, these dollar values are not significant in the grand scheme of life especially if they're the singular barrier stopping you from getting where you feel you need to be.

 

[Flyhound]

A LONG time ago I had a commercial ticket and an instrument rating but was working as an engineer in a non-aviation job sector. I looked long and hard at the aviation jobs available to me and none of them paid even half of what I made in my non-aviation position. I chose to stay where I was and pay for flying out-of-pocket without any focus on aviation as a career. As a result, I flew what I wanted to fly and took it to where I wanted to go. Aviation stayed fun and rewarding to me. Many of my friends that were working as aviation professionals hated their work - for a variety of reasons. Some hated their bosses, some hated their schedules, some hated the machines they had to fly. Working in a field that you have general interest in can be very depressing if you have specific ideas about the way you want to work. A bad job in aviation can even turn your passion into a nightmare. My advice would be to find a career where you can make enough money to cover your living needs and feed your passion in a way that keeps your passion fresh. The downside of taking a job in a field you enjoy is that once your passion turns into a job, the luster can wear off quickly. That's true for pilots, artists and lots of other endeavors that are started as passion hobbies and get ruined by turning into work. Rather than obsessing about your dream job, widen your perspective and think about your dream life. Sometimes what you do for income can be a small part of an overall dream life that leaves you smiling at the end of each day. Working in a career that paid well and offered lots of opportunities (even though it wasn't aviation related) let me enjoy multiple aspects of flying on my own terms. I've owned a go fast plane (a Mooney M-20E), a pick-up truck plane (a C-182), a fun hamburger chaser (a Grumman AA-5) an aerobatic monster (a Pitts S2A) and now fly a back-country STOL aircraft (a Maule MX7). Flying has never lost its luster because all 47 years of my flying has been on my own terms, and that's the way I like it.

 

[sourdough44]

Did you work with aircraft in the military? It sounds like you have a handful of years to work this out, $$ is tight for many. If you really want piloting, and no major skeletons in the closet, I wouldn’t give up yet.

Many pilots came onboard as previously having other jobs around the airline, kinda a preferential interview deal. They may not be active now, but I see apprenticeship positions listed for a few regional airlines I checked. It’s sorta playing the medium game, but it puts you on track.

https://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/amt-pathway-program

With a good record and the pilot training, what about applying at a military flying unit? That would be the National Guard or similar? Most of us have had setbacks along the way, at times even faith is important. I certainly don’t want you throwing good $$ after bad, but it seems you are down the path a fair bit.

I’d think you saw the long thread of this page started by sixpapacharlie, about the midlife career change.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Are you limited by location? In other words, are you able to move for the work, A&P or piloting? With Spring coming up in a few months, there may be tour operators looking to fill positions whether in direct or ancillary roles.

 

[pfarber]

Hard truth... if every job sucks, its not the jobs.

I don't know of any shop that advertises for AnP apprentices. You show up, log your time/jobs and its not up to the company to check all the boxes, its up to you. Me thinks you are looking to be spoon fed. If I had free time on the line/hangar no one ever told me I couldn't help another crews to even just watch. You are on the clock as a worker, not an apprentice. Big difference.

You also have some weird fixation on 'love of aviation'. It's a job. There are electronics and hydraulics and sheet metal in a ton of different occupations. Hell holes and skydrol burns can be found all over the place. Riding a 65ft boom to grease some fitting is the least enjoyable thing I do... but I do it because of the $$$, and flight benefits.

Maybe you can get into one of these new LSA MX/Inspection classes and work EABs/LSAs. You can be an EAB wonderkid in less than two weeks from what I hear.

The smart choice? Get a job that makes you the money to enjoy aviation (whatever that means to you). Avoid the cancer causing reproductive harm causing circadian rhythm destroying job that is AnP (at an airline). Go GA if you want to kiss money good bye.

 

[drummer4468]

TLDR: Where there's a will, there's a way.

Disclaimer: I don't work in aviation.

If I read your situation correctly:
You're not in a currency/skill position where you'd feel comfortable doing a flying job interview (and your job won't really fund flying hours to improve that situation), so commercial pilot work is out
You're not in a financial position to get your CFI and open up an avenue to flying there, so CFI is out
You're discouraged from A&P stuff given the rejections / "TBNT" letters
You're not in a financial position to put yourself through A&P school, which would improve the marketability at shops
You're unwilling to take on more debt since you've already accrued a significant amount

Taking your situation at face value, it sounds like there's really only one option you're prepared to pursue: continue outside of aviation and save your pennies. If you accrue enough pennies to get back in and you still want to do it, either A&P or flying -- then jump back in.
Otherwise it seems like opportunistically pursuing the A&P "apprentice" path by sending out resumes and seeing if one lands (and pays enough) is the only alternative.

One thing I'll mention: I'm not sure where you accrued a ton of debt in your personal journey, but not all debt is created equal. Racking up debt to buy consumer trinkets and nice cars and trips is not the same thing as investing in your skills and education to improve your own earnings ability. There's limits, of course.

In that respect, if I were in your shoes and I knew for sure that I wanted to be in aviation as an A&P and the only thing standing in the way was tuition in a program, I would borrow to make that happen. That's assuming I knew I wanted to do that for sure and I was willing to keep a positive attitude and do what's necessary in the job to succeed. Same with CFI. Because frankly, these dollar values are not significant in the grand scheme of life especially if they're the singular barrier stopping you from getting where you feel you need to be.

I definitely didn't go about things in the smartest way, as far as debt is concerned. In a nutshell, I had just taken out a sizeable consolidation loan 2 months before losing that mx job, with plans to get it paid off in a couple years or so. But suddenly having to live on unemployment and credit cards while paying off that note each month meant my overall debt only grew instead. Finishing my CPL in that time definitely didn't help things, I was just tunnel-visioned on finishing that milestone in hopes it'd create opportunities and everything would somehow work out. Unfortunately that part hasn't gone according to plan, and I'm trying to figure out the next moves while making entry-level wages.

A LONG time ago I had a commercial ticket and an instrument rating but was working as an engineer in a non-aviation job sector. I looked long and hard at the aviation jobs available to me and none of them paid even half of what I made in my non-aviation position. I chose to stay where I was and pay for flying out-of-pocket without any focus on aviation as a career. As a result, I flew what I wanted to fly and took it to where I wanted to go. Aviation stayed fun and rewarding to me. Many of my friends that were working as aviation professionals hated their work - for a variety of reasons. Some hated their bosses, some hated their schedules, some hated the machines they had to fly. Working in a field that you have general interest in can be very depressing if you have specific ideas about the way you want to work. A bad job in aviation can even turn your passion into a nightmare. My advice would be to find a career where you can make enough money to cover your living needs and feed your passion in a way that keeps your passion fresh. The downside of taking a job in a field you enjoy is that once your passion turns into a job, the luster can wear off quickly. That's true for pilots, artists and lots of other endeavors that are started as passion hobbies and get ruined by turning into work. Rather than obsessing about your dream job, widen your perspective and think about your dream life. Sometimes what you do for income can be a small part of an overall dream life that leaves you smiling at the end of each day. Working in a career that paid well and offered lots of opportunities (even though it wasn't aviation related) let me enjoy multiple aspects of flying on my own terms. I've owned a go fast plane (a Mooney M-20E), a pick-up truck plane (a C-182), a fun hamburger chaser (a Grumman AA-5) an aerobatic monster (a Pitts S2A) and now fly a back-country STOL aircraft (a Maule MX7). Flying has never lost its luster because all 47 years of my flying has been on my own terms, and that's the way I like it.

I definitely resonate with much of what you said. A big theme in my aviation dream is to stay in general aviation, with no distinct plans or desire to go to the airlines. Not saying it wouldn't be awesome to fly big iron, but I love the prospect of flying all kinds of airplanes into all kinds of small airports, meeting all kinds of people. Rather than seeing Dulles, JFK, and Boston 16 times a week for a number of years.

Did you work with aircraft in the military? It sounds like you have a handful of years to work this out, $$ is tight for many. If you really want piloting, and no major skeletons in the closet, I wouldn’t give up yet.

Many pilots came onboard as previously having other jobs around the airline, kinda a preferential interview deal. They may not be active now, but I see apprenticeship positions listed for a few regional airlines I checked. It’s sorta playing the medium game, but it puts you on track.

https://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/amt-pathway-program

With a good record and the pilot training, what about applying at a military flying unit? That would be the National Guard or similar? Most of us have had setbacks along the way, at times even faith is important. I certainly don’t want you throwing good $$ after bad, but it seems you are down the path a fair bit.

I’d think you saw the long thread of this page started by sixpapacharlie, about the midlife career change.

I did not work with aircraft in the military. I was in satellite communications both in the army and as a contractor for a total of about 11 years. I've been trying hard to leverage my technical/mechanical skills to at least get my foot in the door at a shop somewhere, but it hasn't done much good. I'll take a look at that thread shortly, thank you.
Funny you mention applying to a mil flying unit, I actually have interviewed for one, working on Blackhawks. I was super stoked until halfway through the interview, when he casually mentioned "by the way, this is only available to servicemembers so you'll have to join the Army reserve." I've had my DD214 for a little too long to go back to basic training lol

Are you limited by location? In other words, are you able to move for the work, A&P or piloting? With Spring coming up in a few months, there may be tour operators looking to fill positions whether in direct or ancillary roles.

I'd love to say I'm not limited, but unfortunately I am unless I come across a rather well-paying opportunity, as I have a house that my girlfriend and I live in and she is contractually anchored to her job here for a few years at least.

 

[pfarber]

am unless I come across a rather well-paying opportunity, as I have a house that my girlfriend and I live in and she is contractually anchored to her job here for a few years at least.

Aviation employment means going to the job, not the job coming to you. Does OP even live near an airport that needs AnPs and will pay a non-sub $20/hr wage?

OP is in no position to advance in Aviation.

OP needs to move for either school or work at a MRO or repair station... neither of which are high paying for a zero time hire.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

I definitely didn't go about things in the smartest way, as far as debt is concerned. In a nutshell, I had just taken out a sizeable consolidation loan 2 months before losing that mx job, with plans to get it paid off in a couple years or so. But suddenly having to live on unemployment and credit cards while paying off that note each month meant my overall debt only grew instead. Finishing my CPL in that time definitely didn't help things, I was just tunnel-visioned on finishing that milestone in hopes it'd create opportunities and everything would somehow work out. Unfortunately that part hasn't gone according to plan, and I'm trying to figure out the next moves while making entry-level wages.

I definitely get it, life doesn't always go as planned! Hope the other folks here can give more insight. Good luck!

 

[drummer4468]

Aviation employment means going to the job, not the job coming to you. Does OP even live near an airport that needs AnPs and will pay a non-sub $20/hr wage?

OP is in no position to advance in Aviation.

OP needs to move for either school or work at a MRO or repair station... neither of which are high paying for a zero time hire.

Never expected to have jobs coming to me. I know I'm currently in no position to advance in aviation, hence the impasse. Just wanted to put my situation out there in hopes someone could shine a light on it from a different angle, maybe show me a path I didn't see.

I have several repair stations within reasonable distance from me, but no luck yet getting a place to let me show 'em what I've got and let me actually work toward certification, or at least something beyond entry-level. The MRO I did work at treated all hires as expendable general laborers, regardless of experience or promises made. Even hires that specifically came in to apprentice as aircraft mechanics got thrown into the component shop. Frustratingly, there are decent opportunities at smaller repair stations 2+ hours away, but factoring in 4+ hours of commuting each day, with the associated fuel costs, makes it unviable without higher pay. Joys of living in rural Maine, where cost of living is skyrocketing and wages are not.

It burns me up trying to accept that I'm just not gonna be able to pursue this path I've spent 6 years and many thousands of dollars on, without either selling my house and uprooting my life/relationship, or hitting the lottery.

 

[hindsight2020]

I empathize, we dislike where we live but need these jobs for the time being. At the end of the day, homesteading is a luxury, not a birthright. You can always come "home" in retirement; it's what most of us forced nomads tell ourselves, even if it amounts to nothing more than a pleasant fiction.

No right or wrong answer, ultimately it's up to you to determine what's more important. But in the context of aviation work, your situation is common, not novel or unique.

 

[TCABM]

….Just wanted to put my situation out there in hopes someone could shine a light on it from a different angle, maybe show me a path I didn't see.
….
It burns me up trying to accept that I'm just not gonna be able to pursue this path I've spent 6 years and many thousands of dollars on, without either selling my house and uprooting my life/relationship, or hitting the lottery.

Time for some tough love.

You’ve brought nothing but excuses to this thread, starting with leaving your previous career shut that avenue forever to not getting handed the job you want because it was too much to learn in to short a time to you’re not interested in moving where the jobs are due to finances/home ownership.

You need to figure out if you need money or need to work in aviation, because as a junior dude, those things are mutually exclusive. If you’re going to work to work in aviation, you’re also going to have to go to where the jobs are, which it sounds like is not where you live today.

If you’re going to make money, you also need to change your lifestyle to get out of debt quicker so you can have the spare funds to maybe support you getting back into aviation sooner.

Probably not what you wanted to hear a couple of days before Christmas, but your story is one having all thrust and no vector.

 

[drummer4468]

Time for some tough love.

You’ve brought nothing but excuses to this thread, starting with leaving your previous career shut that avenue forever to not getting handed the job you want because it was too much to learn in to short a time to you’re not interested in moving where the jobs are due to finances/home ownership.

You need to figure out if you need money or need to work in aviation, because as a junior dude, those things are mutually exclusive. If you’re going to work to work in aviation, you’re also going to have to go to where the jobs are, which it sounds like is not where you live today.

If you’re going to make money, you also need to change your lifestyle to get out of debt quicker so you can have the spare funds to maybe support you getting back into aviation sooner.

Probably not what you wanted to hear a couple of days before Christmas, but your story is one having all thrust and no vector.

I agree with you. Thank you for the insight.

All thrust and no vector….thats painfully accurate. Thats what’s driving me crazy, having no clear direction. My story is very chaotic. Ever since that first mx job fell through, I’ve kinda been scrambling to get traction in whatever direction I can. I feel like I have numerous half-built pathways none of them lead anywhere yet.

Not trying to make excuses at all. As far as the flying job I didn’t get, that was 100% my own fumble. I didn’t mean to frame is as anything else, but I see how it read that way.

And just to be clear, I’m not looking to get handed a 6-figure dream job, or any job on a silver platter. I just want to get my foot in the door somewhere that I can put my skills on the table and have a chance to progress. It’s a strange, frustrating feeling having put so much work into opening my horizons over the years, just to be trapped in an entry level job unrelated to my goals, with no funds to forge a path elsewhere. Like a weird purgatory. And it’s all my own doing, I own that.

Looks like I just have to bite the bullet and dig in until I can set myself up better for aviation.

 

[TCABM]

…. It’s a strange, frustrating feeling having put so much work into opening my horizons over the years, just to be trapped in an entry level job unrelated to my goals, with no funds to forge a path elsewhere. Like a weird purgatory. And it’s all my own doing, I own that.

Looks like I just have to bite the bullet and dig in until I can set myself up better for aviation.

Sometimes it pays to stop looking at the present and instead decide where you want to be in life in 5-10 years. Work backwards from there to present day, then map the path and work it.

The single biggest thing that helps is being out of debt, and that means first, stop digging the hole deeper. Then find the biggest shovel you can and start filling it in.

Make a goal to be debt free except the mortgage in 24 months or less, then make it happen.

 

[Zeldman]

Joys of living in rural Maine, where cost of living is skyrocketing and wages are not.

FYI, that is pretty much everywhere right now.

 

[fasteddie]

I have a house that my girlfriend and I live in and she is contractually anchored to her job here for a few years at least.

Joys of living in rural Maine, where cost of living is skyrocketing and wages are not.

Feel like living in rural Maine is going to be the biggest hurdle to a lot of this.

I did not work with aircraft in the military. I was in satellite communications both in the army and as a contractor for a total of about 11 years. I've been trying hard to leverage my technical/mechanical skills to at least get my foot in the door at a shop somewhere, but it hasn't done much good. I'll take a look at that thread shortly, thank you.
Funny you mention applying to a mil flying unit, I actually have interviewed for one, working on Blackhawks. I was super stoked until halfway through the interview, when he casually mentioned "by the way, this is only available to servicemembers so you'll have to join the Army reserve." I've had my DD214 for a little too long to go back to basic training lol

Not sure I followed everything, but what's your end goal? You want to be flying commercially, in some aspect or another?

I don't understand the detour into trying to get your A&P and working at a component shop, particularly since you took a pay cut.

Flying takes a lot of money. I'd try to get back to whatever job you had before, where you were making more money. Was that the contractor gig?

 

[drummer4468]

Feel like living in rural Maine is going to be the biggest hurdle to a lot of this.

That is correct.

I don't understand the detour into trying to get your A&P and working at a component shop, particularly since you took a pay cut.

So, at that time I was a contractor for DoD satellite communications at a small base up here. I was also still working on commercial, and it was slow going due to difficulties with scheduling (I lived 2+hours away from the closest GI Bill certified school). My original plan wasn’t to abruptly change careers, but to start small before “quitting my day job” so to speak.
There were various factors that ultimately pushed me to leave, including the gov contract getting shaky(leading to downsizing after I left), which why I can't return for the forseeable future. So my train of thought was "Instead of not knowing where this job is going, I can handle a pay cut if it means getting my foot in the door somewhere and working to get certified. Surely the connections I make can only be beneficial in the future"

So I took the component shop job, only to find out the company was a nightmare to work for. They ended up letting me go at a pretty crucial financial time, which I can partially blame myself for leaving myself vulnerable. So ever since then I've been trying to play catch-up. And now I've taken a much bigger pay cut working at a dealership, trying to make ends meet while I figure out the next steps.

My biggest goal is to fly, preferably in a 91 or 135 operation as well as CFI, maybe making the jump to airlines eventually. I just can't afford to keep myself current/proficient enough right now to feel confident to interview. I will, however, try to get in the air enough to apply to a nearby scenic flight operation, at least part time.
Failing that, I've been trying to get into mx because I am very mechanically inclined and do enjoy working with my hands. And as referenced above, a cert can't hurt and I want to put myself in a position to make as many connections as possible.

Thank you all for your input, I do appreciate all of it. It helps a lot to spit it all out and get feedback, so I can give myself a sense of direction.