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Thrance

Filing Flight Plan
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Thrance
Hello All! So finally I feel as if I have a subject that can extract the infinite knowledge that is possessed on this forum.

In two weeks I have my first (What I'm calling BIG) cross country. During flight training and since I received my PPL-SEL I've flown not much further than 65nm from my home airport which is nice Class D airport in Montana. Filing flight plans with flight service, contacting tower, and so on is pretty common to me. However, this is where I start to get caught up. I am flying down to an airport outside of Denver.

This will be my first time flying in to Class B airspace and my first time using (or trying :roll eyes:) to use flight following. The communications factor is a bit intimidating to me with switching and contacting other frequencies and so on. Also, flying near the big class B (which I will stay out of but within a few NM)..

My questions finally are:
Is there any syntax I should be aware of with contacting a different frequency that has been assigned to me?

Any suggestions to the new guy? :lol:

Thanks in advance!
 
First of all, Welcome, finally, to the posting world of POA! Where in Denver are you going? There are a lot of us from that area on here.

As far as what to say: if they coordinate the handoff (you're on a squawk, they give you a new freq, you're in radar contact the whole time - eg: "158SL, contact Denver Center 118.25"), just check in with the usual who you're calling, who you are, and altitude ("Good afternoon Denver Approach, 158SL, 5,500, VFR to ABC").

If they can't manage to work a handoff they'll just cancel your FF and recommend a new frequency ("N158SL, leaving my airspace, radar service terminated. Recommend Denver Center on 118.25 for further advisories"). When you call them: who you're calling, who you are, where you are (position and alt), what you want.

Talking in a Bravo is no different than anywhere else. You might just have to wait a bit longer to get a word in. The Denver controllers all seem pretty nice and patient from my experience with them.
 
Welcome to the group!

Don't feel bad about being nervous flying into Class Bravo -- many of us were, that first time.

It's funny -- if you look at my first few "real" cross-country flights, many moons ago, I plotted them so as to AVOID all controlled airspace. I simply did not want to deal with the added stress of communicating with them, and would actually fly AROUND them to avoid to talking to them.

This was due to the fact that I had trained at a sleepy little field in rural Wisconsin, so my experience with ATC was very limited. (It didn't help that one of my first interactions with them, as a student, was not pleasant.)

It was only a few years down the pike that I came to realize two things that should have been obvious:

1. Flying in controlled airspace is actually EASIER than in uncontrolled, since the controllers essentially tell you what to do, and when to do it.

2. Controllers work for us -- not the other way around.

So, relax and enjoy your interaction with the controllers. Most of 'em are good eggs.
 
I use FF all the time especially when going over to spokane/portland/seattle. takes the guess work out of dodging the class B. Just jot down the frequencies, acknowledge traffic and do what they say if it's safe to. They're human. Dunno where you are in MT but they will drop you going south or east out of KMSO every time so figure out what frequenices you need to get back on FF when you get closer to controlled airspace.
 
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1. Who you're calling.
2. Who you are.
3. Where you are.
4. What you want.

It's that easy. ;)

1. Denver Approach,
2. Skylane one two seven niner Mike,
3. 5 miles northwest of Centennial, level eight thousand fife hundred,
4. request flight following to Kilo Foxtrot November Lima.

Or whatever... You know those "choose your own adventure" books? Just replace the above four items as needed. It's just like talking to a Tower... See?

1. Centennial Ground,
2. Skylane one two seven niner Mike,
3. Area Hotel
4. Taxi for takeoff, Southeast departure. (They require direction of flight as a special procedure, it's on their ATIS. They also require you call ground when ready for departure after taxi, not the Tower.)

If switching frequencies as requested by a controller, drop the "What you want" since they already know. And read it back in case of copy errors.

And shorten your callsign only after they have. Denver will typically shorten on first reply.

No need to give their name if they specifically call you. On a reply, read-back specifics and finish with your callsign instead of putting it in front.

They say...
"Skylane Seven Niner Mike, Maintain VFR at or below one zero thousand west of I-25, Denver Altimeter two niner niner two, Squawk fife three two one."

"VFR at or below one zero thousand west of the interstate, two niner niner two, squawk fife three two one, seven niner mike."

If they assign you an altitude, airspeed, heading or other restriction, you must request/report leaving it for any reason.

But you knew that already. ;)

Piece o' cake. Take your time and they'll let you know if they need anything. A common one is "say type aircraft". They want your type that you'd file in a flight plan for their computer, including equipment type. In my case "Charlie 182 slant Alpha".

Another thing that works well here is ZDV and DEN TRACON work well together. If you can get on Flight Following with the Center and they have your destination, they'll often work the handoff to DEN TRACON for you and that usually leads to an easy clearance into the Bravo if you need it. You said you're going underneath so not a big deal I suppose.

Which airport are you visiting? Can probably tell ya how they'll handle you for each particular one...

KBJC: "RADAR contact, remain clear of Class Bravo Airspace West of I-25." And usually a direct hand-off.

KAPA: Ditto.

Those two only really change if you're really high and still need to get down to get under the shelf (plan ahead) or there's DEN traffic conflicts or a TFR up over any of the Downtown Stadiums.

KFTG: They'll vector you all over the place to go around DEN if you're arriving from the northwest, especially if DEN is landing north-south. Arriving from the East or South is easiest.

Somewhere else? Different airport?

If you're really nervous, tell 'em you're "not familiar with the area". DEN is good about hand-holding compared to some busier places that'll just tell ya to take up a cardinal heading away from them and terminate service.

Another courtesy thing. They'll probably work a handoff to the tower for you.

If you have dual radios, they're very used to private jet crews and IFR flights who'll listen to their destination ATIS a long way out.

They appreciate a "Airport in sight, and we have Information Juliet" if you spot the airport visually before they hand you off to the tower.

They want to hand you off like an IFR flight in that you've already confirmed you have the ATIS so the tower gets that in the handoff and doesn't have to quiz you for it.

So if you're ahead of the airplane enough and have a spare radio, pick it up early if you can. Either the TRACON or the Tower will appreciate you having it and not having to read you weather data one way or the other, as you go bombing into the Delta airspace, if you're going to one one the three airports above.

Even "We had Juliet we'll pick up Kilo" if it changes is appreciated by the controllers.

Don't be too surprised if the altimeter setting between the TRACON and Airport are significantly different either. DEN is a long ways East on the plains...

So add in that ATIS on the handoff to Tower...

1. Centennial tower,
2. Skylane Seven Niner Mike,
3. (if you got handed off on a discreet squawk code they know where you are, but confirm your altitude...) Seven Thousand Two Hundred Descending,
4. Landing with Juliet.

Those four W's work every time.

When ya comin' to town? Welcome in advance!
 
also curious about which airport near Denver. You can get to all the airports (except KDEN) down here without entering Class B, unless, of course entering Class B is part of the exercise.
 
Wow, the comments are wonderful and insightful! Thank you very much.

I will be flying from KBZN to KBJC. The radios in this particular aircraft are a bit older and without that wonderful flip flop ability. Therefore, I've already made a kneeboard spreadsheet with the freqs needed. Having grown up in Golden and attended CSU it will be a unique opportunity to have a different perspective!

Being a firefighter and learning in a class delta has me comfortable speaking on the radios, I was (until now of course!) a bit apprehensive about context of my calls!

Looking at shooting down there on the 17th of Sept in a rough for wear C172M but it flys and I still like it! Flying down to Denver has been a goal since I received my PPL in May of 10' but life being what it is has prevented me from going far!

Oh my wife just reminded me.. Any pointers for flying with two small dogs? I Think they weigh about 18 pounds combined.. I'm taking them up for their first time tomorrow morning to see how they respond.

Thanks Again!
 
I just took my lab up for the first time a few days ago, biggest issue was he was seeking air vents up front when it got hot. I think the noise is annoying for them, mutt muffs have mixed reviews. Probably a good idea to have someone with you to contain them, or put em in a carrier.
 
Don't forget to say "With you" when you call the next controller...:rolleyes:
 
Thrance said:
Hello All! So finally I feel as if I have a subject that can extract the infinite knowledge that is possessed on this forum.
Click to expand...

Well, infinite opinions, anyway! :)
 
Ahh okay KBJC. You can easily just come down I-25 and make a right base for 29R. ;)

Unless the wind is out of the East, that's the most likely arrival at KBJC. If it is, they'll give you a left downwind for 8L from the north.

Keep an eye out from KFNL south, southbound. From there south there is a lot of traffic. KFNL, KEIK, KBLD, KLMO all kinda bunched there against the foothills.

Everyone follows I-25 (stay to the right of the highway, just like driving. Northbounders *should* be on the East side -- their right side.), or worse, some blow south between KLMO, over KEIK, and right past KBLD. All are busy on weekends.

Flight Following north of town will be from ZDV, you won't have to talk to DEN TRACON at all until almost landing.

Denver Center is 134.85 near KFNL if you're not already talking to them by then.

The mid-air earlier this year over KBLD was between a glider tow-plane at KBLD and a KBJC-bound Cirrus, southbound.

During weekends that corridor between KLMO down to KBJC can get busy with a lot of traffic. Eyeballs outside!

ZDV may hand you off to DEN briefly in the area of the final approach fix for the ILS for 29R at KBJC where'd you'd be making a long right base to final turn.

So you'd have a couple of quick freq changes in that area from ZDV to DEN to the KBJC tower.

Also makes picking up the ATIS tricky with one radio.

There's also skydiving at KFNL And I think still at KLMO. So it's pretty busy up there. ;)

KBJC renamed themselves years ago. BJC = Broomfield, Jefferson County which was "JeffCo" on the radio.

They renamed to "Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport" which is "Metro Airport" now on-air.

You'll probably hear at least one dumb local like me who'll call 'em JeffCo and get chastised for it.

The whole name change was re-branding to try to get more bizjets from KAPA (Centennial - AraPahoe County Airport) across town.

My joke has been "Metrosexual Airport" for their cleaning up with a pretty new terminal building (clothes), new tower (LASIK surgery), and repaved runway (waxing). LOL!

When you get to town, there's a small but wonderfully obnoxious PoA contingent here in DEN. (As you can see from my nickname for JeffCo... Er... Oops... Metro!)

;)

Holler if you want to get together!
 
The standard traffic and anticipated approach is wonderful to know! My initial plan was VFR from over Huges Stadium (CSU's stadium) southbound on the BJC 351 Radial to keep clear of FCO skirting to the east of LMO and between BDU and EIK. If thats the highway to the danger zone :p I'll stick a bit further east.

The dogs did great this morning! Jumped in the backseat and went to sleep. Although after landing and fueling up one of them did figure out she should could go under the seat; so that will need to be remedied before I fly with them again.

I have been programming myself since I started planning this flight that I WONT call it Jeffco but I keep doing it, HA! I've never flown out of the place but I still know it as Jeffco from growing up in the area.

Although, I do wish I cold meet up with fellow pilots and catch up my turn around in the area will be short. On the 18th I am expecting to fly north then west over to Salt Lake City; to visit the wires family.
 
For your dogs safety as well as your own, use a harness and make a lead with a seat belt clip. You make it long enough so they can stand/sit/lay on the floor or seat but will be restrained to the back seat area in an accident.
 
Henning said:
Am I? Last 3 flights I kept score, more "With You" than without and weighted heavily to pro pilots.
Click to expand...

Somehow, you just don't seem like the type to recommend something just because most people do it!
 
Dang, we ain't got that "Pot Stirring" smilie here... I don't care is why I bring it up. I typically don't do it, but I love the fuss it raises with the radio etiquette sticklers. I figure most of them are probably Hams as well. Most the Hams I know are one beer short of a six pack in that manner....
 
When I hear that "with you" thing I often think, *** Who else would you be with, HELLO, you're on my frequency***. Just makes me smile and when I'm tempted to say it I wonder if I can lower my voice enough to sound like a Captain of a large aircraft :)
 
Jeanie said:
When I hear that "with you" thing I often think, *** Who else would you be with, HELLO, you're on my frequency***. Just makes me smile and when I'm tempted to say it I wonder if I can lower my voice enough to sound like a Captain of a large aircraft :)
Click to expand...

Don't have to anymore, they've gotten used to calls from the box office....:D
 
Palmpilot said:
Just to be clear, HE'S JOKING!
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I must be out of the loop but in 30 + years of flying and using flight following I almost always say .
" whatever center, 801bh with you, level at 13,500..... They have not laughed at me .. YET :hairraise::dunno::dunno::dunno::confused:

Thrance,,, wave as ya go by Jackson. You should be on 133.25 while using FF in this sector, I am on that alot. Have a safe flight.

Ben.
 
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N801BH said:
I must be out of the loop but in 30 + years of flying and using flight following I almost always say .
" whatever center, 801bh with you, level at 13,500..... They have not laughed at me .. YET :hairraise::dunno::dunno::dunno::confused:
Click to expand...

As Henning implied in a later message, it's really not that big a deal, but there have been long threads on it that have, at minimum, established the practice as controversial, hence his wish that we had a "stirring the pot" smiley.

Of course, that's only my interpretation of the situation!
 
Palmpilot said:
As Henning implied in a later message, it's really not that big a deal, but there have been long threads on it that have, at minimum, established the practice as controversial, hence his wish that we had a "stirring the pot" smiley.

Of course, that's only my interpretation of the situation!
Click to expand...

I'd say that's a fairly accurate assessment. It's a dumb argument, and I think Henning was just trying to be difficult. Which I'm sure surprises everyone :rofl:
 
The use of "with you" is something else I never heard discussed until I started reading internet message boards. I'll agree that I've heard many people use it, some who were sitting next to me.
 
Henning said:
For your dogs safety as well as your own, use a harness and make a lead with a seat belt clip. You make it long enough so they can stand/sit/lay on the floor or seat but will be restrained to the back seat area in an accident.
Click to expand...

Great advice.. they already have harnesses so securing them to the back should not be difficult!
 
Henning said:
Don't have to anymore, they've gotten used to calls from the box office....:D
Click to expand...

~~~~~. I was kinda joking. I sort of tease a pilot friend of mine that he seems to lower his voice to serious DJ voice when he keys the mic so I attempt to lower mine too....
Sorry thread creep
 
Mini Dachshund and a some sort of Yorkie Terrier mix... I dunno.. They're my wife's 'childern'
 
They're all good, especially the Yorkie if you have wood floors, you just spray the bottom of them with Endust... My neighbor has a fluffy Chinese Crested. Probably my favorite of the genre.
 
Teller1900 said:
That sounds...loud. :rofl:
Click to expand...

They're actually great dogs about the barking oddly enough. They only bark when a strange dog enters the front yard OR a new person is in the house. And even then its 2 or 3 barks then quiet.

Meat missiles, I honestly hope they don't turn into that! It sounds unpleasant!

Funny enough, I was talking to a friend last night (I had no idea of his occupation) and realized his voice was familiar; so I mentioned it. Turns out that he was an ATC at KHLN where I've done 75% of my cross countries to. I felt bad for the man as I picked his brain for 25 minutes ;-)

-Thrance
 
Thrance said:
Meat missiles, I honestly hope they don't turn into that! It sounds unpleasant!


-Thrance
Click to expand...

You don't have to hope, you can apply safety measures to assure it...;):yesnod: You could also possibly buckle the seat belt around the lifting handle on the back of the harness, doubt it's long enough to let em on the floor though. You can keep em to the seat.... I like the lifejackets for dogs like that. Makes it easy and claw proof to get em on the boat. Handles, should be standard equipment on animals and kids.
 
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denverpilot said:
ROFLMAO!
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It's funny, but I am serious. I've had to "catch" kids to keep em from getting hurt. Problem is, sometimes you can't catch them without hurting them. When they have on their PFDs with the big loop handle on the collar, it's easy to just safely snatch them.
 
Those "harness and leash" things for kids? I scoffed at them until I became a parent, and then realized that they had some real value - was better to pull on the harness than yank on Ciara's arm when she was little.
 
Everskyward said:
The use of "with you" is something else I never heard discussed until I started reading internet message boards. I'll agree that I've heard many people use it, some who were sitting next to me.
Click to expand...

That's because it's a trivial matter and doesn't really make a hill of beans of difference whether or not it's said but it gives the internet nazi's something to bicker about.

I think most guys who use it tend to use it almost in the same way they say hello. Have I used it? I'm sure. Does it bother me? Not one bit.

I generally give them a good "Center Blah Blah Blah, level three seven zero, howyadoin?"
 
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