Long instrument cross-country clarification

[chucky]

I'm getting ready to take a flight to satisfy the requirement for a long cross country, from 61.65(d)(ii):

ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in an airplane with an authorized instructor, that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and that involves—

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B ) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

My question is about the distance requirement from part (A) - is this the point-to-point distance between the airports for the flight, or is this the distance actually flown along the route? I ask because I've chosen one airport to go to that I'm fairly set on, and there are a number of conveniently placed airports more or less on the way back that bring the total distance between airports to about 245nm or so. The route flown, however, will be comfortably over 250nm. My instructor isn't sure what the reg really requires, and it seems to me that the rational reading of the reg is that it's the distance along the route that counts, but I'm not sure.

 

[EdFred]

For the IR, it is just along the route.

 

[chucky]

Thanks. That makes sense to me.

 

[taters]

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways


you bet...just the route

 

[Jaybird180]

That's another fine example of a poorly written reg.

My question about this is: if it were ever questioned as to how you met the 250nm requirement, how can you justify the route your took to travel only 245nm? How do you document this?

 

[EdFred]

That's another fine example of a poorly written reg.

My question about this is: if it were ever questioned as to how you met the 250nm requirement, how can you justify the route your took to travel only 245nm? How do you document this?

Don't cut it so (expletive laden tirade censored) close. Why the the (more expletives) does everyone want to cut everything so (more expletives) close?

If you need 50 (expletives) miles for a XC, go fly 75 so there's no worry. If you need 250, fly 3-(expletives)-hundred!!!

What is with everyone and their barely scraping by???? You should all ground yourself for being (expletives) minimalists.

 

[jason]

Don't cut it so (expletive laden tirade censored) close. Why the the (more expletives) does everyone want to cut everything so (more expletives) close?

If you need 50 (expletives) miles for a XC, go fly 75 so there's no worry. If you need 250, fly 3-(expletives)-hundred!!!

What is with everyone and their barely scraping by???? You should all ground yourself for being (expletives) minimalists.

If it makes you feel better, I flew 358.1 nm for my 250 nm IFR cross country.

 

[EdFred]

If it makes you feel better, I flew 358.1 nm for my 250 nm IFR cross country.

Attaboy!!!

I plotted mine out. I was a slacker. 298nm. I thought I was over 300. But even in the Warrior that was a long night. Landed well after midnight, and almost hit 2 deer on the runway.

 

[jason]

Attaboy!!!

I plotted mine out. I was a slacker. 298nm. I thought I was over 300. But even in the Warrior that was a long night. Landed well after midnight, and almost hit 2 deer on the runway.

I did mine in the Debonair...so that helped. 3.6 hours total. It was a great flight. I agree, though. There should be nothing stopping these flights from being 300, 400 even 500 nm. Mo experience, mo better.

 

[EdFred]

I did mine in the Debonair...so that helped. 3.6 hours total. It was a great flight. I agree, though. There should be nothing stopping these flights from being 300, 400 even 500 nm. Mo experience, mo better.

Plus, you need 50hrs XC PIC, and you can log that flight as PIC assuming you already have your private - and make a landing at least 50nm away.

 

[chucky]

Don't cut it so (expletive laden tirade censored) close. Why the the (more expletives) does everyone want to cut everything so (more expletives) close?

If you need 50 (expletives) miles for a XC, go fly 75 so there's no worry. If you need 250, fly 3-(expletives)-hundred!!!

What is with everyone and their barely scraping by???? You should all ground yourself for being (expletives) minimalists.

I've done two 1100+ mile trips as part of my IFR training already. For various reasons, they did not include approaches 'at each airport', so they don't seem to me to satisfy the letter of the reg. Since I still need a few more hours of instrument time anyway, I figure I'll knock out a short long one that satisfies the letter of the law, since I think I've already got the spirit covered. I'm taking a friend along for one leg, which fixed one of the airports. The choice of the other one is dictated by whether or not I want to risk getting a 75nm reroute by ATC - this is judging by what I see on fltplan.com and flightaware.com. I wouldn't really mind except that both the plane and the instructor can't be gone all day. Are those sufficient (expletive) excuses? :wink2:

For those who are curious, I'm doing KHVN->KPNE->KMMU->KHVN. If I try to do an airport on the other side of New York, like Danbury or White Plains, it seems ATC likes to route people up to Allentown and Kingston, which adds a lot of millage on to the trip. Going to an airport that's in the New York terminal area seems to alleviate some of those problems. Of course, I may be setting myself up for departure delays, but a Saturday morning shouldn't be too bad.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

For those who are curious, I'm doing KHVN->KPNE->KMMU->KHVN. If I try to do an airport on the other side of New York, like Danbury or White Plains, it seems ATC likes to route people up to Allentown and Kingston, which adds a lot of millage on to the trip. Going to an airport that's in the New York terminal area seems to alleviate some of those problems. Of course, I may be setting myself up for departure delays, but a Saturday morning shouldn't be too bad.

Yeah the FJC HUO route stinks. I did OXC-GON-PVD-ACK-MVY-BID-OXC for my long IFR XC and had a good time. I try to stay away from the busy stuff in NY unless I have to go there. North and east usually works well out of here. South and west puts you in delay central usually.

 

[chucky]

Yeah the FJC HUO route stinks. I did OXC-GON-PVD-ACK-MVY-BID-OXC for my long IFR XC and had a good time. I try to stay away from the busy stuff in NY unless I have to go there. North and east usually works well out of here. South and west puts you in delay central usually.

The funny thing is, it seems to me that if you can go right through the middle, you don't have too many problems. It's the ones that skirt the edges that seem to get pushed into the hinterlands.