Long Distance Plane Purchace

QuiQuog

QuiQuog

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hobo Djoe
How does one go about buying a plane when it's not feesible to drive over to see it in person? Some that I've seen are halfway across the country. I know that ferry pilots are available to bring your new plane to you after you buy it, but how would you go about making an informed purchace without being able to see it or do a test flight?
 
Aluminum cattle tube to look at one in NC. Went back a second time on the ACT to pick it up.

Aluminum cattle tube to look at one in FL. Went back a second time on the ACT to pick it up.

If spending a couple hundred on a plane ticket is too much $$$ to go look at a plane, then ownership is probably beyond your current finances.
 
QuiQuog said:
How does one go about buying a plane when it's not feesible to drive over to see it in person? Some that I've seen are halfway across the country. I know that ferry pilots are available to bring your new plane to you after you buy it, but how would you go about making an informed purchace without being able to see it or do a test flight?
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It helps if you know someone that is close and can go view the airplane and report back to you. Sometimes you can get a fellow POAer nearby to take a look and report back.

I closed on my Baron without ever seeing it in person...but I had a IA in the same city who used to maintain my previous airplane and was an expert in the type do the pre-buy for me. First time I saw the plane was when I arrived to do the insurance checkout. Worked very well, but again, I had a trusted agent.

Barring that, you should narrow down your search through phone calls and photos, scanned logbooks..etc and when you find one that looks worth it, then arrange to travel and inspect it.
 
Some people do it, but I could never buy something I'm going to fly sight unseen unless I knew the aircraft and have flown or been in one like it.

I'm not helping your question, but it's the little things like, do you fit in it? I'm tall with long legs. Some aircraft are like torture chambers for me.

It's doable however. Just a matter of more $$$$. :redface:
 
EdFred said:
Aluminum cattle tube to look at one in NC. Went back a second time on the ACT to pick it up.

Aluminum cattle tube to look at one in FL. Went back a second time on the ACT to pick it up.

If spending a couple hundred on a plane ticket is too much $$$ to go look at a plane, then ownership is probably beyond your current finances.
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Agree, but with some of the more common types, it helps to narrow down the field first so you aren't flying around to view and demo 30 different 182s.
 
Used the Internet,to view pictures,had the logs fed ex to me. Hired a mechanic for pre purchase,who worked with my home mechanic. Brought my trade to Texas and took the new plane home.
 
I'd buy tickets for my trusted mechanic and me to go on a quick exploratory trip. The cost of knowledge is minuscule compared to the cost of making a bad purchase. The bar bill would probably be the biggest expense!
 
I bought my Plane sight unseen. Got a rediculous amount of photos, annualed the plane and spoke to the shop in detail about the condition, any and all minor issues, had them scour the logs, many, many conversations witht the seller.

When I flew put to pick her up and the hangar door opened, I was pleasantly surprised. It was in better condition than I was told. My first flight was when left his airport with my new plane.

But, from the entire process, I was comfortable that the previous owners were as anal retentive as I am. From the logs, it was obvious the previous owners spared no expense in keeping it a cream puff.

I don't regret buying it this way one bit. But to each his own.
 
You got some good responses on this.

I bought my plane from long distance, but not really. It was only about 140 miles away. Although I WAS able to drive over and see the plane, he personally flew it to the IA on my field for prepurchase inspection. The fact that he was confident enough in the plane to fly it over himself, said something in itself.

I would think that networking would be your best asset (can you use a verb for an asset?) Try to get to know people in the area that have no skin in the game, but that you know, or know of through a trusted acquaintance to go look at the aircraft and give your their first impression. Then start calling nearby FBO's and airports to look for a trusted IA or at least A&P for the PPI. Once you seemed to have found someone, call the airports and FBO's in the area and try to get some opinions and references on the guy, as well as the owner of the aircraft.
 
Stewartb said:
I'd buy tickets for my trusted mechanic and me to go on a quick exploratory trip. The cost of knowledge is minuscule compared to the cost of making a bad purchase. The bar bill would probably be the biggest expense!
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So I by myself two tickets and can drink twice as much
 
I bought a car from another city. Similar process. Tons of photos, lots of questions. Flew there and checked it out. Looked fine, so I drove it home. I was willing to buy a ticket and fly back if it wasn't as represented. Obviously, you would want a more thorough prepurchase inspection with a plane.
 
I hired Savvy MX to do the pre-buy inspection for me. They confirmed everything that was listed really existed, and handled the pre-buy. Worked out really well. When I first saw my Cirrus - I already owned it... but there were no issues.
 
For what it's worth....

If you find a bird in Arkansas, I'd have no problem flying to it and giving it a once over for you. If it's a good bird, I'd tell you. If it's a POS, I really tell you.

No prob at all, and that goes for anyone who asks me to do it because I know what it's like to buy w/o putting your hands on it first.
 
Unit74 said:
For what it's worth....

If you find a bird in Arkansas, I'd have no problem flying to it and giving it a once over for you. If it's a good bird, I'd tell you. If it's a POS, I really tell you.

No prob at all, and that goes for anyone who asks me to do it because I know what it's like to buy w/o putting your hands on it first.
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This is what I'm talking about.

If you are trying to narrow down the playing field and determine if the plane is being misrepresented before you shell out money for the purchase process, there are a lot of good folks here at POA willing to assist.
 
I purchased my aircraft out of state. I got lots of pictures and reviewed the logs. Had the plane flown to a different airport for a pre-purchase inspection by a different shop than had been maintaining the plane - I wanted fresh eyes. Yes, you will be out some cash if you decide to walk away. Took a commercial flight down to see the aircraft in person once the inspection report came back positive. Obviously completed a thorough preflight and then a quick test flight. Once the transaction was complete I flew the plane 3 hours back home. Yes, you can hire a ferry pilot but there is something special about flying your own plane back home.
 
My first aircraft purchase was a Cessna 150 on ebay with 10,000 hours and I didn't look at it in person before buying it. The time was running up and I was 18 and didn't know better. I'd highly recommend getting a plane ticket to look at it first. I got really really lucky with my purchase..
 
Stingray Don said:
Yes, you can hire a ferry pilot but there is something special about flying your own plane back home.
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Agreed. I was originally planning to use a ferry pilot to get my Waco home (due to my schedule and the coming winter), but his schedule didn't work out and I ended up being able to fly it home. What a great experience!
 
I bought my Arrow several states away.

Since it was my first aircraft purchase, I hired a purchasing agent to sift through the junk and give me good options based on my requirements.

My theory was quality over location, so nothing that we looked at was remotely close.

When there was an aircraft that interested me, he would make the initial call. He knew my budget (cash was already in escrow). If a price could be agreed upon, then a purchase agreement was signed and proof of funds in escrow was provided. Cash in hand ready to wire was very helpful during the deal making process.

Once we had a purchase agreement, arrangements were made with a local shop for a prebuy and I caught the airlines out to see it. On the Arrow that I bought, I spent a week in Jonesborro, Arkansas with the pre buy shop going over it.

Once the prebuy is complete and discrepancies are resolved, then I flew her home.

My advice:

I used a purchasing agent. Now that I have been through the process, I would be comfortable going at it on my own for something similar to my arrow. If I was upgrading, then I want the experience of someone that knows the type. It was really beneficially for me being a 1st time buyer. He saved me from some serious mistakes towards the end when I was frustrated and just wanted to buy something to fly.

Use an escrow service such as Aerospace Reports. Not only do they do escrow, but also title services. Worth every penny. They found and cleared old leans on my plane. Not something you want to find after the plane is in your name.

Have a buyers agreement before you go out there. Pictures and logs can be reviewed from home so you get an idea of what you are looking at.

Be there for the prebuy if possible. It was fun.
 
I flew to several ... and they were horrible or had problems not discolsed when I arrived.

My current plane was bought site unseen for me, BUT had a full annual at the shop of my choosing, lots of photos, checked by someone I trusted and the seller was actually honest.
 
Thanks for all the ideas. I like that there are people here willing to help a brother out. The Plane I'm interested in is actually in Kentucky, near Lexington. In lieu of that, I like the idea of a purchasing agent that can help me with all of the details. I've never bought a plane and don't know what to expect, so it would be nice to have that experience working for me.
 
Can anyone recommend a purchasing agent in Kentucky?
 
Brokers can be good for certain people and a certain price level of airplane.

I did it the dumb way when I bought in 1996. I didn't use a broker at all - I just found an ad for a plane in TAP and called. I used a mechanic on the same field as the company selling the airplane (gee I wonder if they knew each other!), and I had never met said mechanic before he did the pre-buy. I met him the day I came to pick up the airplane. He was supposed to be done sooner but somehow was delayed until the day I arrived.

He found nothing major wrong with the airplane and I flew it home. I never had any major problems with that airplane, but in hindsight I wouldn't do it that way again... and indeed I used a broker and my home shop when I bought my current bird in 2012. Doesn't always work out that way though.
 
I am from California and bought my plane in Florida. Once I found it (at a broker) we basically made the deal over the phone after receiving all the pics, logs and info and pending a inspection. We came to a price that we were both happy with. Then found a local A&P that came recommended from a local contact. Flew out to FL to lay eyes on the plane...was better than expected.

-Had the A&P do a log book review...all looked good.
-Next had the A&P do a pre-buy. He started and I stuck around to see it come apart then headed back home 24 hours after I landed.
-He completed the pre-buy and looked good.
-Had him do a full blown annual and found about $2500 of squawks which the seller agreed to pay. Plane passed annual and A&P did all repairs.
-Wired broker the money then flew back to FL two weeks later and flew her home cross country.

I did give them a small deposit but had an agreement that I could basically walk away at any time for any reason with a full refund.

Took me two cross country flights but for the money I was spending I did not give that time or money a second thought.
 
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Just buy it cheap. If you don't like it sell it to someone else and make a profit...
 
It's not rocket surgery, get the FAA CD, photos of the full logs, photos of the plane, make a deposit after signing a agreement, fly over to check it out, find a local AP IA to go over it (most any AP IA can handle a 182), take it on a test flight, compare it against the books, prebuy/annual, if everything checks out buy, if not you get your deposit back and go home.
 
Verify that it is the type of plane that fits your mission. I purchased a 182 and loved it but I grew out of it after a year because my mission was cross country so I ended up buying a Malibu.

Verify you are paying the right amount for what you are getting.

Make sure someone you trust and knows what they are doing inspects the logs and the airplane.

After that it is just a matter of purchasing the plane. That is a whole other thing depending on sales tax laws in your state. You have want to have the plane delivered to you to avoid paying tax in two states or one with really high rates.
 
1) If possible contact a POA friend or poster that you respect who is local to the plane and see if they are willing to go look at it.

2) Fly out commercial to look at it.

3) Some people will hire a well known A&P specialist in the plane to go look at it and do a pre-buy. ( I have known some people who have purchase planes sight unseen)
 
AdamZ said:
1) If possible contact a POA friend or poster that you respect who is local to the plane and see if they are willing to go look at it.

2) Fly out commercial to look at it.

3) Some people will hire a well known A&P specialist in the plane to go look at it and do a pre-buy. ( I have known some people who have purchase planes sight unseen)
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I did see pictures.
 
I have looked at several planes for members on a 172 site that were close to me. It's not a pre buy but after looking and logs and going over the plane it gives them enough info to decide if buying a ticket to look at it in person is worth it.
 
OK, confession time...
First plane (C-172) for young RD...
Was working on IR(A) with about 100 hrs total under my belt.
Experienced CFII found something "promising" for me on TaP in FL (I was NE), talked to the guy on phone (pre internet), as did I, and all sounded good for my IR training (ILS + navcom + ADF, no GPS or DME or A/P, mode A only xponder), price within budget.
CFII and I flew down to FL by airline on one-way tickets, got hotel room, next day inspected logs and plane, signed papers and off we flew northbound.
I was in midst of IFR training at the time, used to IMC, and we got lots of it on our hop-scotch journey home, except...
First stop in GA, we are "shooting the ILS" in light rain showers, no big deal since ceilings advertized well above mins, except...
Tracking the LOC inbound, waiting to intercept GS, except it never comes in...
No, it's not notam'd, no outage report, but no-can-do.
We revert to LOC only, report GS OTS, land no problem, refuel and stay on trek home. Back home do some digging. GS receiver is a separate unit, remotely mounted in back, except...
Mounting frame sitting there nice and pretty, empty with no GS! :eek: :yikes:
Seller (FBO) who had seemed like a nice guy, claimed surprise (swore up and down "I had no idea!"), was nice enough to ship us GS unit, snapped in, worked great.
Ended up pulling almost 700 hrs on that bird in 3 years, plenty of it IMC.
I'll save a couple more "surprises" on it over those years for some other time, but I am around today to tell about it, got nice piece of change back selling it at end, and still harbor warm thoughts about my cozy old "purple skyhawk". :)
Became much more careful with pre-buys after that...
 
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I bought a plane located in Atlanta and I'm in Socal. I rented a few Cherokee Archers and pre '73 180s locally to get a feel and check out the legroom and differences in the models.

Spoke to seller on phone a lot, asked him to take pics of the "worst parts of the plane." He sent lots of photos, ALL the logs. I made an offer contingent on pre buy and he accepted. Had a shop over there (not his shop) do a pre buy. After the successful pre buy we took a little money off the price based on a few squawks- nothing really major.

THEN I bought an insurance policy for the plane and flew out as a formality to meet the seller and fly the plane. I had already committed to the purchase but wanted to meet him and fly with him- it was a fun experience and one I won't ever forget.

RESEARCH, LOGBOOK INSPECTION, AGREEMENT, PREBUY, CLOSE
 
I'm in ky. Take lessons in Morehead (SYM) 45 min from Lexington. I could put some eyes on it for you if need be.

Michael
 
Here's what I did. I live on the east coast and bought a plane in indiana.

Got scans of all the logbooks and some basic photos.

Broker asked for a $500 deposit prior to inspection, refundable (in writing) if something was found on the inspection that would render the aircraft unairworthy or would cost more than $1000 to repair in total.

Asked for a list of local inspectors, got a list of about 20 people who could do it

Called every one until I found one that gave the right impression. He had the most reasonable price, and offered to send a full written report with about 250 pictures, as well as do a look up of ADs, balance the prop, and bore scope, including video of the bore scope inspection. Friendly, customer service oriented, honest (by our conversations), and reasonable.

He briefed me in full on the problems found, issues, and positive sides of the airplane.

Flew in via US Airways with a cashiers check.

Did my own look at the records and verification

Flew home.

Been happy ever since. Best purchase I've made in awhile, short of my recently installed geothermal system at home
 
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