Long Cross Country Flight Planning

Fly-Fla

Fly-Fla

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Fly-Fla
I'm planning to fly from KMAI (Marianna, FL) to KCMH (Columbus, OH) VFR in two weeks weather permitting. Some of you may have seen my related thread about being a low time pilot which I posted a few weeks ago. I will be flying a 172P with only Radios for Navigation however I have a yoke mounted Ipad Mini and a full size Ipad 2 (not mounted) both with Foreflight loaded. I also have a Dual GPS to feed them both even though they both have internal GPS capability. I thought I might fly into Chattanooga (KCHA) as a midpoint stop for fuel, bathroom break, weather updates etc, however I just pulled this out of the hat for no real reason other than being about half way. This puts me on a course from MAI to avoid dealing with Atlanta before turning more NE. In this situation would you plot a course VOR to VOR or just fly direct using Foreflight? It seems if I zig zag from VOR to VOR I add about thirty miles to the trip, which is not a huge waste out of a 600 NM trip but is to be considered. Obviously using VOR's and GPS as a back-up gives me a secondary navigation option. The other questions is how high would you fly(excessive high level head winds aside). The highest I have flown is 5500, I'm in Florida so no real need to clear mountains and I haven't flown far enough yet to justify additional altitude. I will be flying alone and the plane has a nearly brand new engine so it should fly nearly at book numbers. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Just my opinion. VFR draw a straight line point to point. Check for restricted airspace and (if you want to, hot MOA's) and deviate accordingly. Check for terrain clearance and deviate accordingly. That's about the extent of it for planning. Your final route will be determined by weather and that is a decision you won't make until hours before departure, so don't task too many neurons on it too far ahead of time other than mapping out some cheaper fuel stops for each general geogpaphic area.
 
Fly-Fla said:
I'm planning to fly from KMAI (Marianna, FL) to KCMH (Columbus, OH) VFR in two weeks weather permitting. Some of you may have seen my related thread about being a low time pilot which I posted a few weeks ago. I will be flying a 172P with only Radios for Navigation however I have a yoke mounted Ipad Mini and a full size Ipad 2 (not mounted) both with Foreflight loaded. I also have a Dual GPS to feed them both even though they both have internal GPS capability. I thought I might fly into Chattanooga (KCHA) as a midpoint stop for fuel, bathroom break, weather updates etc, however I just pulled this out of the hat for no real reason other than being about half way. This puts me on a course from MAI to avoid dealing with Atlanta before turning more NE. In this situation would you plot a course VOR to VOR or just fly direct using Foreflight? It seems if I zig zag from VOR to VOR I add about thirty miles to the trip, which is not a huge waste out of a 600 NM trip but is to be considered. Obviously using VOR's and GPS as a back-up gives me a secondary navigation option. The other questions is how high would you fly(excessive high level head winds aside). The highest I have flown is 5500, I'm in Florida so no real need to clear mountains and I haven't flown far enough yet to justify additional altitude. I will be flying alone and the plane has a nearly brand new engine so it should fly nearly at book numbers. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Just fly it as direct as you can given any special-use airspace in the way. Might be a worthwhile exercise to plan out a VOR-VOR route on paper if you want a backup option. Draw the VOR-VOR route in one color and the direct-ish route in another color so if you lose GPS you can either continue with pilotage or start hopping VORs.

Fuel prices aren't bad at KCHA and it's not usually all that busy, but remember you don't need to limit yourself to "big name" airports for your fuel stops. A small uncontrolled field with a good FBO might be easier and faster to get in and out of, and you can turn on the fuel price layer in Foreflight to find something cheap along your route.

Oh, and don't be afraid of 7500' or 9500', either, if you need to. Adds a few miles of glide range, may get you above late-Spring bumps, and you'll have somewhat less traffic to spot. Just remember to enrich the mixture on the way back down.
 
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CHA= Wilson Air.

The advice above is hard to append to...
 
My only advice would be to take someone with you. Especially someone who can help with flight duties. Perhaps a friend that has a private certificate or such. While it will be a great learning experience for you I think the one thing you don't seem to have redundancy for is yourself.

I understand however that sometimes getting someone to come flying is a lot hard than it should be.
 
So you're going to plan on going GPS the whole way? What happens when the GPS batteries die and you don't know where you are? One of the things I learned was NEVER fly the magenta line. But that's why I am working on my IFR so I can have more tools in my tool belt. I wish you fun and enjoyment on your trip. It can be done. I did a trip to FL from NW Ohio and only had to deviate a few miles because of A cloud. Hope you report back. Enjoy Columbus!
 
saracelica said:
So you're going to plan on going GPS the whole way? What happens when the GPS batteries die and you don't know where you are? One of the things I learned was NEVER fly the magenta line. But that's why I am working on my IFR so I can have more tools in my tool belt. I wish you fun and enjoyment on your trip. It can be done. I did a trip to FL from NW Ohio and only had to deviate a few miles because of A cloud. Hope you report back. Enjoy Columbus!
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You're working on your instrument rating but don't ever plan to fly the magenta line? You are in for a good amount re-routes and vectors, my friend. And a lot of extra workload at times when having a 430 would really help you out. Don't get me wrong, I had my 430 take a nap on me one day doing VOR holds at an intersection in training. You know what I did? I flew the airplane with one VOR and it stayed in the sky. You train for failures and you train how to handle them, but that doesn't mean you can't use things that will fail. Heck, wings fail, engines fail.. but we still use them.


I'm also in the "go direct as possible" route. Get flight following, some music to listen to (or a book) and enjoy yourself. Stop halfway to get fuel, stretch your legs and call the weather guy again. This will be a wonderful experience for you, and you won't forget it either. :yesnod:
 
saracelica said:
So you're going to plan on going GPS the whole way? What happens when the GPS batteries die and you don't know where you are? One of the things I learned was NEVER fly the magenta line. But that's why I am working on my IFR so I can have more tools in my tool belt. I wish you fun and enjoyment on your trip. It can be done. I did a trip to FL from NW Ohio and only had to deviate a few miles because of A cloud. Hope you report back. Enjoy Columbus!
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There is nothing wrong with a direct /G clearance. If the GPS fails you just advise (which you know you need to do) and re-route. ATC seems to prefer giving direct clearances vs. routes in some areas.
 
Z06_Mir said:
You're working on your instrument rating but don't ever plan to fly the magenta line? You are in for a good amount re-routes and vectors, my friend. And a lot of extra workload at times when having a 430 would really help you out. Don't get me wrong, I had my 430 take a nap on me one day doing VOR holds at an intersection in training. You know what I did? I flew the airplane with one VOR and it stayed in the sky. You train for failures and you train how to handle them, but that doesn't mean you can't use things that will fail. Heck, wings fail, engines fail.. but we still use them.


I'm also in the "go direct as possible" route. Get flight following, some music to listen to (or a book) and enjoy yourself. Stop halfway to get fuel, stretch your legs and call the weather guy again. This will be a wonderful experience for you, and you won't forget it either. :yesnod:
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...and autopilots;)

I notice that on most of my flights with the G1000, I fly the magenta line for a portion of the flight but I also deviate for one reason or another. I'm not locked to it indefinitely. Same with the autopilot.
 
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saracelica said:
So you're going to plan on going GPS the whole way? What happens when the GPS batteries die and you don't know where you are? One of the things I learned was NEVER fly the magenta line. But that's why I am working on my IFR so I can have more tools in my tool belt. I wish you fun and enjoyment on your trip. It can be done. I did a trip to FL from NW Ohio and only had to deviate a few miles because of A cloud. Hope you report back. Enjoy Columbus!
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That's stupid. If you're paying the gas bill yourself you ALWAYS fly the magenta line. Why would you dogleg around if you have the ability to go direct? It doesn't always work out, but if I had my druthers every trip would look like this:

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Why CMH? There are numerous GA airports in the area, and odds are there's one closer to your actual destination than CMH.
 
Once again I am with Jeff, it is my fuel and I will use as little as possible. Going direct is one of the biggest reasons to travel by air!
 
+1 for the magenta line. After 20 years zig-zagging on VOR routes I got my first handheld GPS and thought I had died and gone to heaven. I've been flying direct ever since (15 years and 2,000 hours worth.) The line wasn't magenta back then, but a black line worked just as well!!

Fly direct and deviate slightly as necessary. Talk to ATC en route and much of the special use airspace won't even require a deviation.
 
Talk to ATC en route and much of the special use airspace won't even require a deviation.
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+1 Get flight following so you always have someone on the other end of an emergency radio call and that someone knows who you are and where you are. Fly high enough (winds permitting) to stay in radar contact.
 
I'll be working in downtown Columbus off Marconi Avenue and staying on East Nationwide Blvd. Just looking at google earth CMH seemed as close as anything. What are the issues with CMH, just expensive fuel or something else? I will certainly do flight following and file a flight plan.
 
I seldom fly direct. A long cross country is much more comfortable if I have a bail-out point every 30 minutes or so. So, most of my cross countries, I fly from airport to airport. To a six hour flight the zig-zags might add 30 minutes, but it gives me feedback and less stress to see those airports rolling by me.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm with Jeff.
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There is a lot of crossing traffic over VORs, why go near them?
Even without iPad Foreflight GPS, straight line VFR chart pilotage works.
It worked for years before LORAN or GPS.
 
BillTIZ said:
There is a lot of crossing traffic over VORs, why go near them?
Even without iPad Foreflight GPS, straight line VFR chart pilotage works.
It worked for years before LORAN or GPS.
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It also worked for years IFR. The great debate about "don't go direct" didn't begin until loran and gps came along.
 
JHW said:
It also worked for years IFR. The great debate about "don't go direct" didn't begin until loran and gps came along.
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Yep...Lindbergh skipped all the VORs en route to Paris!

:D
 
Another option for you...

MAI 1A3 CMH directly over ATL at 5,500'. You should use flight following and can always deviate to the West if needed. ATL center/approach have always been great to deal with. I would check into the other destinations...TZR, LCK or OSU. It may be quicker in and out, safer, cheaper. I did my PP long xc into CMH. I would recommend to stop at M97(my hometown) on your way back for your first top off. Let me know if you are going to stop. Have fun.
 
Is 5500' a magic number with getting clearance to fly through Atlanta airspace, or do I need to be at least that high? It certainly saves a few miles to fly over ATL but I wasn't sure at what point in my trip I would know if I would be cleared.
 
saracelica said:
So you're going to plan on going GPS the whole way? What happens when the GPS batteries die and you don't know where you are? One of the things I learned was NEVER fly the magenta line. But that's why I am working on my IFR so I can have more tools in my tool belt. I wish you fun and enjoyment on your trip. It can be done. I did a trip to FL from NW Ohio and only had to deviate a few miles because of A cloud. Hope you report back. Enjoy Columbus!
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Fly with a real GPS and the batteries won't die
 
LDJones said:
+1 for the magenta line. After 20 years zig-zagging on VOR routes I got my first handheld GPS and thought I had died and gone to heaven. I've been flying direct ever since (15 years and 2,000 hours worth.) The line wasn't magenta back then, but a black line worked just as well!!

Fly direct and deviate slightly as necessary. Talk to ATC en route and much of the special use airspace won't even require a deviation.
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I'm with LD. Don't use a GPS because the batteries might quit? :rofl: Hook the GPS to ships power, and carry 2 GPSs. :dunno:

In 15 years of flying covering 46 out of 50 states, 3,300 hours, I have never used anything but GPS. :dunno:

OP do you have a smart phone? There is your second GPS & weather. :D

Weather is going to be your biggest concern, look out the windscreen once in a while. Seriously, set personal mins on weather and don't go below them. ;). Don't be afraid to deviate for weather. The "Nearest" button on your GPS is your friend. :D

Critique your decision making and see what you could have done to improve your flight situation. Leave before sun up and enjoy the sun rise and smooth air to your first fuel stop.

By all means....Enjoy the trip! :yes:
 
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It is the altiitude most likely to get you over ATL. If you are getting flight following, sound professional and don't arrive during busy times(Wed are the busiest day, any day after 10-11 AM your chances are higher). Remember you must be cleared into the class B. They should let you know 5-10 miles before the class B airspace. If not, ask for transition over the field. They may ask you to overfly the approach end of 26/27/28. If told to remain clear then just stay at least 2-3 miles away from airspace and go around the West side.

I always have paper charts on board, even if expired to back up my Ipad, 430w and GRT EFIS. Always know exactly where you are and where you want to go.
 
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just my opinion, but I wouldn't call up atlanta and try to go through talking to them if you don't want to get routed all over the place. When we to to jacksonville VFR we either go around or (more often) go over. Flying VFR your greatest asset is the freedom to pick your own route. Once you start talking on the radio you lose some of that.
 
JHW said:
Once you start talking on the radio you lose some of that.
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Only if you are trying to fly through airspace. You can still get FF and not be subject to a bunch of routing if you stay out of atlanta's airspace.

Direct the distance is 560nm and if you go KMAI-KCTJ-KCMH completely avoiding the class B, the distance is 564nm.
 
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@OP,

I like your original plan just fine, with a couple of tweaks.

First, you're avoiding the mountains which is smart for a flatlander. They ain't the Rockies but if you cross a ridge at less than 2000' clearance on a windy day you'll learn something about flying that your flatland CFI never mentioned.

Second, a halfway stop to relax and re-check weather is always good.

Third, avoiding a busy Bravo is also good.

Yes, I'd fly direct, too. I occasionally fly VOR to VOR I my /A equipped bird (with ForeFlight on the yoke like you), but that's more to keep me used to centering the needle than anything else.

Watch those MOAs! Over southern Ohio you're going smack through a couple of them. Have deviation routes planned and ASK the controllers about the MOA status BEFORE penetrating them.

Your altitude will be determined by the winds and weather. With no instrument rating you are well advised to not go VFR on top. But otherwise, don't be afraid to climb for favorable winds. Conversely, be ready for the bumpy ride if you have to stay low to avoid a bad headwind.

Consider your inflight snacks, drinks and entertainment. As much as we all love flying after the first hour I like to put on some music. The whole point is to maximize your comfort on what is sure to be a long day.
 
Morne said:
@OP,

I like your original plan just fine, with a couple of tweaks.

First, you're avoiding the mountains which is smart for a flatlander. They ain't the Rockies but if you cross a ridge at less than 2000' clearance on a windy day you'll learn something about flying that your flatland CFI never mentioned.

Second, a halfway stop to relax and re-check weather is always good.

Third, avoiding a busy Bravo is also good.

Yes, I'd fly direct, too. I occasionally fly VOR to VOR I my /A equipped bird (with ForeFlight on the yoke like you), but that's more to keep me used to centering the needle than anything else.

Watch those MOAs! Over southern Ohio you're going smack through a couple of them. Have deviation routes planned and ASK the controllers about the MOA status BEFORE penetrating them.

Your altitude will be determined by the winds and weather. With no instrument rating you are well advised to not go VFR on top. But otherwise, don't be afraid to climb for favorable winds. Conversely, be ready for the bumpy ride if you have to stay low to avoid a bad headwind.

Consider your inflight snacks, drinks and entertainment. As much as we all love flying after the first hour I like to put on some music. The whole point is to maximize your comfort on what is sure to be a long day.
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All good advice
 
What I would likely do with the Bravo

Rubber band the route on FF to just miss it, then when when approaching ask for a clearance. If I got it, go direct CMH (or fuel stop), if not continue on the original track.
 
I'm also of the camp where I go direct as much as possible. If your GPS craps out so what. Just look out the window, and tune in a VOR if you need. The only time I dogleg my trip is if I'm flying over mountains and I want to minimize my time over inhospitable terrain, or to avoid restricted airspace.
 
So far I am thinking of sticking with the original plan and avoiding the Atlanta Class B. I'm flying up on Sunday the 21st and will be leaving early. As I said in the original post, I have two Ipads loaded and updated with Foreflight both with GPS and a Smart Phone with a basic GPS app, and I have a charger for use in the plane. If all else fails I'll have my paper charts and can switch back to pilotage or VOR navigation. I haven't used it yet but my Senheisser S1 headset has bluetooth so I can link it to my Ipad for some background music.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm also of the camp where I go direct as much as possible. If your GPS craps out so what. Just look out the window, and tune in a VOR if you need. The only time I dogleg my trip is if I'm flying over mountains and I want to minimize my time over inhospitable terrain, or to avoid restricted airspace.
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Yep, I will add that I dog legged once to go the correct direction around a high pressure system. I had crunched the numbers and arcing around to stay with the tailwinds was a few minutes faster than punching strait through.

Took some good winds to make that work however.
 
Z06_Mir said:
You're working on your instrument rating but don't ever plan to fly the magenta line?
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Nope I fly the needles as long as they're centered I'm good. When I look at the GPS too long my instructor turns the screen to something else and I fly the needles.
 
saracelica said:
Nope I fly the needles as long as they're centered I'm good. When I look at the GPS too long my instructor turns the screen to something else and I fly the needles.
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In that case you have a good instructor. But training is not the real world. Once you are going places, you won't fly airways much whether you have a gps or not.
 
saracelica said:
Nope I fly the needles as long as they're centered I'm good. When I look at the GPS too long my instructor turns the screen to something else and I fly the needles.
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I filed for a VOR->VOR routing for a training IFR flight,

On initial contact with approach I was told "proceed direct to your destination.

My CFI protested, ATC offered to cancel the IFR and as it was IMC we proceeded direct.

Oh, I hand flew the needles for about 15 minutes before being told to turn on the AP, "lets get some 'ground' in":lol:
 
Morne said:
Watch those MOAs! Over southern Ohio you're going smack through a couple of them. Have deviation routes planned and ASK the controllers about the MOA status BEFORE penetrating them.
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Good advice. You are permitted to fly through a MOA without permission, but it is a really good idea to talk to the controlling authority so that they can let the military aircraft know you are there so they can move to a different part of the MOA, or they know to look for you. If it doesn't add too much time to my flight, I plan to go around them, just like a Charlie or a Bravo. If you start to vector around them early, then usually it doesn't add that much to the total distance. Often, the difference is only five minutes or less. I figure I can volunteer that much time in the interest of national security.
 
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