Logging PIC Time

bcso48

bcso48

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 23, 2010
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Paradise CA.
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George Mahon
Just a quick question which I'm sure has been hashed around in here before. I will try and keep it simple and to the point.
A friend of mine ( And a newly minted private pilot) owns a P210 which I have flown for quite sometime. He does not yet have a high performance or complex signoff and my question is could he log PIC time when flying with me if he is controlling the aircraft ??.The way I read the FARS it looked to me that he would have to have those sign offs first. Could some of you chime in here please if I'm wrong ??....Thanks...George
 
Cue flow chart!

(Click on the question in my signature)
 
This is legal, no problem. However, I he should get the sign-offs. After all, he owns the P210, and I'm sure is going to want to fly it. It's no big deal to get, I got my HP and complex within the first 10 hours after passing my checkride.

Him logging time while flying with you is a good way to build the time in type, which will make insurance a lot easier. As I understand it, P210s are difficult to insure with someone who doesn't have time in type. If he can log about 50 hours flying with you, that'll make him a lot more insurable. An instrument rating will also help with that.
 
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As far as I know, the FARs define being "rated" as category, class, and type. So, as long as he is rated in that sense, and YOU are acting PIC, then he should be able to log PIC by being sole manipulator.

Ed, That is a nice flowchart. How long did that take to make? and how many annoying students inspired it?
 
ajstoner21 said:
As far as I know, the FARs define being "rated" as category, class, and type.
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A good way to decide if you are rated or not is to look and see what it says on your certificate. You don't need the type on your certificate unless it's some aircraft which requires a type rating (>12,500 lbs or a jet) and that's not what we are talking about here. So for a 210 it would be airplane single-engine land.
 
ajstoner21 said:
As far as I know, the FARs define being "rated" as category, class, and type.
Click to expand...

I assume you know this, but for those who are new, type only applies if it's an aircraft that requires a type rating.

To the OP, FAR 1.1 says that a rating appears on your certificate, and high performance and complex don't.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."
 
For ACTING purposes, 61.31. He can't act as PIC. That has nothing to do with logging.

For LOGGING purposes, 61.51. Specifically, 61.51(e)(1)(i). He is rated in the airplane (Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land), so he can log any time he is sole manipulator of the controls as PIC. There are several FAA Chief Counsel interpretations to back that up.

He cannot act as PIC - Someone who can act as PIC must be aboard - But he can log it as PIC.
 
My medical is currently out. I flew in a SWA 737 from HOU to CHS. When I went to the aft lav I was the sole occupant and manipulator if the lav controls. Can I log that?? :)
 
Yes, but only in your lav book.
 
Palmpilot said:
FAR 1.1 says that a rating appears on your certificate, and high performance and complex don't.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."
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Did you mean generically, or were you commenting specifically on some pilot certificates?

§ 61.317 Is my sport pilot certificate issued with aircraft category and class ratings?

Your sport pilot certificate does not list aircraft category and class ratings. When you successfully pass the practical test for a sport pilot certificate, regardless of the light-sport aircraft privileges you seek, the FAA will issue you a sport pilot certificate without any category and class ratings. The FAA will provide you with a logbook endorsement for the category and class of aircraft in which you are authorized to act as pilot in command.
 
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Sport pilot falls under the "or privileges" clause of 61.51 for logging purposes.
 
Thanks for the input sounds like he can log the time PIC even though he lacks the sign offs. I will be flying with him for the foreseeable future. He flys the plane very well but lacks an instrument rating (Important) and the insurance company is looking at a minimum of 100 hours. I think they will also require an instrument ticket because its a P model 210....Thanks...George
 
Palmpilot said:
I assume you know this, but for those who are new, type only applies if it's an aircraft that requires a type rating.

To the OP, FAR 1.1 says that a rating appears on your certificate, and high performance and complex don't.

"Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations."
Click to expand...


I should have been more specific, but yes, I knew :goofy:
 
EdFred said:
Sport pilot falls under the "or privileges" clause of 61.51 for logging purposes.
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The comment was made that per 1.1, what was on your certificate was what you could log. My comment was that sport pilot certificates seem to be an exception to that rule.

I'm not sure what observation you're making on that point. Can you help me out?
 
jnmeade said:
The comment was made that per 1.1, what was on your certificate was what you could log. My comment was that sport pilot certificates seem to be an exception to that rule.
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Well no, I didn't actually say that, nor did I mean to convey that. My comment re 1.1 was solely about the definition of "rating."
 
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jnmeade said:
Did you mean generically, or were you commenting specifically on some pilot certificates?

§ 61.317 Is my sport pilot certificate issued with aircraft category and class ratings?
Click to expand...

I was commenting on the definition of "rating." I did not intend to imply anything about sport pilot certificates.
 
EdFred said:
Sport pilot falls under the "or privileges" clause of 61.51 for logging purposes.
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jnmeade said:
The comment was made that per 1.1, what was on your certificate was what you could log. My comment was that sport pilot certificates seem to be an exception to that rule.

I'm not sure what observation you're making on that point. Can you help me out?
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Not Ed but I think that he meant in 61.51(e) it says this...

e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
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Wow. Wonder when they changed the wording. sport pilot didn't used to be there. The FAA site is dated May 11. Wonder if that is when that change was made.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Wow. Wonder when they changed the wording. sport pilot didn't used to be there. The FAA site is dated May 11. Wonder if that is when that change was made.
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Yeah, it used to say "rated or has privileges".
 
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