Logging PIC on a checkride

MachFly

MachFly

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MachFly
I was just going though my logbook and I noticed that on my single engine checkride the inspector allowed me to log PIC, but on my multi enigne checkride the inspector (different inspector) did not. I assume that one of them was wrong, but which one?
An extra hour of PIC isn't really going to make a difference but I'm just curious what is the right way to do it?

Thanks
 
My understanding has been if you meet the standards for that flight you can log it as PIC. I vaguely recall something about DPEs NOT being PIC on Checkrides, but can't recall specifics. Perhaps someone lse knows.
 
MachFly said:
I was just going though my logbook and I noticed that on my single engine checkride the inspector allowed me to log PIC, but on my multi enigne checkride the inspector (different inspector) did not. I assume that one of them was wrong, but which one?
An extra hour of PIC isn't really going to make a difference but I'm just curious what is the right way to do it?

Thanks
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I believe if you pass your checkride then you were considered PIC. It is YOUR logbook so if you need to change it then definitely do so!
 
If you pass teh PIC, or even if the DPE doesn't need to take the controls at all, you log PIC. The DPE is not acting as PIC you are, and thus you log it as such.
 
In this case do I need the DPE to make the correction? Since the DPE did put his signature there...
 
GCA319 said:
Ive never heard of a dpe signing an applicants logbook....
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For all 3 checkrides that I took the DPE signed my logbook. And I had a different DPE for each checkride.
 
MachFly said:
In this case do I need the DPE to make the correction? Since the DPE did put his signature there...
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His signature presumably only covers the checkride itself, not how the time is categorized. He was mistaken and in the unlikely event anyone ever questions you adding the time as PIC, just show them section 61.47 of the regulations, where it specifically says an examiner is not PIC (unless this was previously agreed to beforehand.)
 
BTW He also logged it as duel received, should I remove those hours? It's a checkride so he wasn't really teaching.

Jim Logajan said:
section 61.47 of the regulations
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Thanks, I was looking for this.
 
So looks like I got to correct a few lines in my logbook. Since those flights were a while back I don't want to correct the total number of hours on every page, it would look like crap.
What is the professional way to do it?

Should I put a post it on the last page explaining the changes or dedicate the next page of the log book only to corrections, or something else?
 
MachFly said:
So looks like I got to correct a few lines in my logbook. Since those flights were a while back I don't want to correct the total number of hours on every page, it would look like crap.
What is the professional way to do it?

Should I put a post it on the last page explaining the changes or dedicate the next page of the log book only to corrections, or something else?
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Fix it on the page in question, asterisk a revised total on the bottom of that page and carry it forward to current page. It won't matter if some intervening pages are off by an hour.
 
MachFly said:
BTW He also logged it as duel received, should I remove those hours? It's a checkride so he wasn't really teaching.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about removing it, but it is strange. Every checkride I have done, the DPE signed my logbook that he had administered the checkride. I have never seen a DPE that logged a checkride as dual given.
 
What you'll find if you look hard enough is that there is no reg that permits you to log PIC on the checkride for an aircraft rating. Nevertheless, it's been done by convention for years decades so I wouldn't worry about it either way.

Some point tout that the student is acting as PIC on the ride. That's correct but, as we all know, the rules for "acting as" PIC is different than for "logging" PIC.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
I have never seen a DPE that logged a checkride as dual given.
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Probably because they are prohibited from giving training on a practical test. If one entered "dual" time but not PIC time, it's probably because s/he was confused by your logbook's arrangement and put it in the wrong column by mistake. For the person who had that happen, just move the time from the "dual" column to the PIC column, line through the erroneous entry, and initial and date the change.

In any event, per 61.47, you are acting as PIC on the practical test unless the examiner agrees otherwise, but this has nothing to do with how you log it, only who is responsible if something goes wrong. However, as Mark points out, even though you are acting as PIC, if you are flying a plane in which you are not yet rated (e.g., Student Pilot taking PP-ASEL ride, PP-ASEL taking AMEL ride), there is no regulation which allows you to log it as PIC time, but by convention/tradition, you do anyway. Of course, if you are rated (e.g., PP-ASEL taking Instrument-Airplane ride in an ASEL), the 61.51(e)(1)(i) "sole manipulator" clause says you can log it as PIC time regardless of who's acting as PIC.
 
I busted my 1st checkride and it was logged as PIC. And DPE did sign my logbook. He put entries for simulated instrument (hood work), and PIC. Same thing for re-test, it was logged as PIC.
 
Ron Levy said:
61.51(e)(1)(i) "sole manipulator" clause says you can log it as PIC time regardless of who's acting as PIC.
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So, when you are under hood and DPE does unusual attitudes, it should disqualify you from logging as PIC?
 
GCA319 said:
Ive never heard of a dpe signing an applicants logbook....
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The DPE who gve me mine signed it and even stamped it with a personal stamp. I asked why he stamped it with a personal stamp and he said, "well that way if I ever give you another checkride I'll know it was me who gave you your private." It was kind of a cool thing and a neet thing to look back at every now and then.

I got the PIC for the checkride and I passed. That seems to be the consensus so far.
 
LDJones said:
Fix it on the page in question, asterisk a revised total on the bottom of that page and carry it forward to current page. It won't matter if some intervening pages are off by an hour.
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Roger


midlifeflyer said:
What you'll find if you look hard enough is that there is no reg that permits you to log PIC on the checkride for an aircraft rating. Nevertheless, it's been done by convention for years decades so I wouldn't worry about it either way.

Some point tout that the student is acting as PIC on the ride. That's correct but, as we all know, the rules for "acting as" PIC is different than for "logging" PIC.
Click to expand...

Ron Levy said:
Probably because they are prohibited from giving training on a practical test. If one entered "dual" time but not PIC time, it's probably because s/he was confused by your logbook's arrangement and put it in the wrong column by mistake. For the person who had that happen, just move the time from the "dual" column to the PIC column, line through the erroneous entry, and initial and date the change.

In any event, per 61.47, you are acting as PIC on the practical test unless the examiner agrees otherwise, but this has nothing to do with how you log it, only who is responsible if something goes wrong. However, as Mark points out, even though you are acting as PIC, if you are flying a plane in which you are not yet rated (e.g., Student Pilot taking PP-ASEL ride, PP-ASEL taking AMEL ride), there is no regulation which allows you to log it as PIC time, but by convention/tradition, you do anyway. Of course, if you are rated (e.g., PP-ASEL taking Instrument-Airplane ride in an ASEL), the 61.51(e)(1)(i) "sole manipulator" clause says you can log it as PIC time regardless of who's acting as PIC.
Click to expand...

Now I'm confused. I realize that everyone logs PIC on a checkride but purely by what the FAR allows you to do who is supposed to log PIC? The DPE is not the PIC and you can't log it because your still not qualified in type. Plus you need to log the flights as something (duel received, PIC, SIC, ect...), if it's none of those things then officially what is it supposed to be?
 
MachFly said:
Now I'm confused. I realize that everyone logs PIC on a checkride but purely by what the FAR allows you to do who is supposed to log PIC? The DPE is not the PIC and you can't log it because your still not qualified in type. Plus you need to log the flights as something (duel received, PIC, SIC, ect...), if it's none of those things then officially what is it supposed to be?
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You log it as PIC. It's covered in the 2nd question of this chief counsel ruling: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2009/Murphy.pdf

Short summary of ruling: "The rules say you are acting as PIC but can't log PIC; That's stupid, so you can log it as PIC."
 
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