Logging less than an entire flight?

AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
I had the opportuntiy to sit right seat in a Mooney Ovation yesterday. :D Zoom Zoom. I got to be sole manipulator of the controls for about 1/2 of the half hour flight. Did not take off or land the plane. So I want to log my .2 My question is the last column in the log page says "Total Duration of Flight" Now I was only PIC for about .2 of the .5 flight I can only log .2 of PIC and HP/Complex but what about that last column. The Duration of the Flight was .5

Seems to me though I should still only log the .2 in that section. Who cares how long the flight was? Insurance companies and others only want to know my time. Not sure what to do here. Thanks for the advice.
 
adam, i would only put .2 there, thats how long you were flying
 
My unlearned answer is that if you weren't a required crewmember, e.g., safety pilot for IFR practice, you have no basis for logging the time you weren't flying. You were a passenger. No harm in noting the circumstances in the remarks, however.
 
61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
 
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Yeah Ed. I did read that section prior to posting. Of course I would only log the time I was sole manipulator as PIC time. It was just the last column that was confusing the one that said "Total Duration of Flight"
 
That is confusing terminology. I interpret it to mean "total flight time" which is defined in the FARs. At least that what the column in my logbook means.

Joe
 
Mark kolber from the red board has explained that the column is not an FAA thing but merely some category the publisher of the Log book made up. So, I'm just gonna log the .2 in the Total time as well.
 
Adam,
Thanks for asking the question. I had the same one after my flight in the Harvard, but there I only had .1. Still, it's loggable.

Wait, I don't have a tailwheel signoff.:eek: I have the complex and high-performance, and it's not certified above 25,000. But I can't log it because I don't have tailwheel, right?:vomit:

Does the fact that it's not a US-registered plane have any bearing on this?

(Not meaning to hijack the thread, but...)
 
gprellwitz said:
Wait, I don't have a tailwheel signoff.:eek: I have the complex and high-performance, and it's not certified above 25,000. But I can't log it because I don't have tailwheel, right?:vomit:
Click to expand...
Answering my own question, it is the authorization part that stops me from logging it.
61.31 (i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:[...]:(

gprellwitz said:
Does the fact that it's not a US-registered plane have any bearing on this?
Click to expand...
Since it wasn't operated in US airspace, the FARs are mute on this.
61.3(b) discusses:
Required pilot certificate for operating a foreign-registered aircraft. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of foreign registry within the United States, unless that person's pilot certificate:[...]
 
gprellwitz said:
Adam,
Thanks for asking the question. I had the same one after my flight in the Harvard, but there I only had .1. Still, it's loggable.

Wait, I don't have a tailwheel signoff.:eek: I have the complex and high-performance, and it's not certified above 25,000. But I can't log it because I don't have tailwheel, right?:vomit:

Does the fact that it's not a US-registered plane have any bearing on this?

(Not meaning to hijack the thread, but...)
Click to expand...

You can log PIC under 61.51(e)(i) you just can't act as PIC. I don't think the country of registry has anything to do with it.
 
gprellwitz said:
Answering my own question, it is the authorization part that stops me from logging it.
61.31 (i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane
Click to expand...

Does not mean you cannot log it as PIC. If you were doing tail wheel training you would be logging it as PIC right?
 
Good point. For a d*mned Liberal, I can be overly conservative at times :)
 
smigaldi said:
Does not mean you cannot log it as PIC. If you were doing tail wheel training you would be logging it as PIC right?
Click to expand...

My CFI logged all my tailwheel training time as PIC...
 
You can log it as PIC because you were rated in the same category and class. You could not ACT as PIC until you received the tailwheel endorsement in your logbook.

Scott Turner
CP AS/MEL IA CFI AGI
 
Michael said:
Adam, Tell us more about the Ovation !

:rollercoaster:
Click to expand...

Ok in two words ZOOOOM ZOOOOOOM. :lightning: This plane was sweet. Very solid the pushrod connections made a difference in the alieron movement, its hard to describe but there just was not a lot of play. You turned the yoke and whap your in a bank. It was like a car without power steering. when ya turned the wheel the thing turned. In the Archer it just feels softer less responsive if you will.

As for the comfort, we had four adults in the plane and there was no issue about being cramped. Of course at 205 I was the biggest. Arnold his cousin and father in law are all pretty much FAA adults or less.

Performance was awesome. On climbout Arnold did what felt like a pretty steep banking climb and the plane just felt like it was hugging the banked curve at Talledega. It was a bit choppy and we wanted to stay low to do a tour of Center City Philly so we stayed in the chop it really wasn't all that bad. But I kept looking over at he ASI thinking man we must be screaming through the yellow but Nooooo we haden't even touched it. It was such a clear day you could see how fast we were going by looking down. I had flown this route before and I couldn't beleive how fast the city was passing by below. Slowing down is a different experience I pulled the MP back and guess what we were still screaming then Arnold demonstrated the speed breaks. I thought when the speed breaks were deployed it would be like hitting a brick wall. WRONG AGAIN! I suppose a drouge chute would be helpful LOL. I thought the Lance was fast HA:lightning:

This plane was hard wired for Bose Headsets which were certainly nice. Leather seats, ample room, I did feel like I was sitting kind of low but had no problem seeing out front. The cargo area was roomy and I like the mooney cargo door unlike the small pipers you don't have to bend down to access the bay. Even the door to the plane was an example of how well built it is. In the pipers I fly I have to really pull the door shut, really give it a good quick tug and slam it, then secure the lower latch and then make sure the upper latch catches. In the Mooney you just close it gently much softer than a car door push down the single latch and its secure no effort closed and tight. The ONLY thingsI saw I thought was not such a good idea was the flap unlike the pipers does not have wing walk. You have to step from the step over the flap to the wing black over to black as Arnold said. Also the gear indicators were kinda strange. a small singel light on the panel and and indicator on the floor. I think I like the 3 green and one big red gear unsafe light better. All in all this is a sweet traveling machine can fit a family of four bags and get you to where you want to be in a blink. Solid is another word that comes to mind.
 
Okay, I'm officially jealous. And now planning to win the lottery :)

Thanks to all who set me straight on the logging. Yet again, logging != acting.
 
It was great to fly with Adam, his headings, speeds and altitudes were all spot on despite the bumps. We left wings and headed east towards the DE river, I let the speed build to cruise to give Adam a taste of how quick the aircraft is and we were indicating about 165 at cruise power and 2000' OAT was just slightly below standard. After turning south along the river we pulled it back to about 17" mp and saw about 125 IAS until slowing to land. Flew down the DE river at 2000' and made a turn back to the NW just north of the stadiums (and just north of PHL) Then it was Adam's ship for the duration until downwind. It was great flying with Adam as I'd only flown out of KLOM (Wings) once before and Adam did a great job of pointing out all of the aviation related landmarks in the area. We used the speed brakes before the gear just to give Adam a taste of that techniques, but really it was the gear that slowed us to enter the pattern at a descent speed. However, once you get it slowed you can get it to sink and we flew a nice tight pattern to cra$$y landing - sorry Adam. More on my annual FL trip in a different post.
 
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