Logging Cross Country Time

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hhins

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hhins
For the purposes of a student working towards a Private Pilot (ASEL) flying a cross country, is all the flight time loggable as solo cross country even though two of the legs are less than 50nm?

Airport A to Airport B is 90nm and 1.5 hours
Airport B to Airport C is 40nm and 0.5 hours
Airport C to Airport A is 40nm and 0.5 hours

This is done as a single trip, not three separate days/trips.

I'm struggling with the FAR's definitions. :(
 
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Yes, it is all X/C time. You have a point of landing more than 50 NM from the original point of departure.
 
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hhins said:
For the purposes of a student working towards a Private Pilot (ASEL) flying a cross country, is all the flight time loggable as solo cross country even though two of the legs are less than 50nm?

Airport A to Airport B is 90nm and 1.5 hours
Airport B to Airport C is 40nm and 0.5 hours
Airport C to Airport A is 40nm and 0.5 hours

This is done as a single trip, not three separate days/trips.

I'm struggling with the FAR's definitions. :(
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That doesn't add up. BC + CA is only 80nm.
 
hhins said:
Ok. Do you have the FAR # for this?
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FAR 61.1 (b)(3)(ii)

(3) Cross-country time means -

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight--
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
B That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

But I think Tim Metzinger intended to say 50nm, not 90nm.
 
Thanks :)

It still seems open to interpretation somewhat but in reading that, one landing needs to be 50+ and then I can hit any airport of any distance during that trip and record it all as XC, PIC for my training.

The reason I ask is that my old school had me record my solo XC (2.5h PIC, XC in my example above) but the new school isn't buying it which is somewhat disconcerting of the school itself, they say only the 1.5 is XC, the rest is just solo PIC.

Who do I call to get the official word or to get it in writing? I hate to re-fly a pile of XC.
 
hhins said:
Thanks :)

It still seems open to interpretation somewhat but in reading that, one landing needs to be 50+ and then I can hit any airport of any distance during that trip and record it all as XC, PIC for my training.

The reason I ask is that my old school had me record my solo XC (2.5h PIC, XC in my example above) but the new school isn't buying it which is somewhat disconcerting of the school itself, they say only the 1.5 is XC, the rest is just solo PIC.

Who do I call to get the official word or to get it in writing? I hate to re-fly a pile of XC.
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Once you land at one point that was 51NM from your point of departure, the entire flight is XC.
 
hhins said:
Thanks :)

It still seems open to interpretation somewhat but in reading that, one landing needs to be 50+ and then I can hit any airport of any distance during that trip and record it all as XC, PIC for my training.

The reason I ask is that my old school had me record my solo XC (2.5h PIC, XC in my example above) but the new school isn't buying it which is somewhat disconcerting of the school itself, they say only the 1.5 is XC, the rest is just solo PIC.

Who do I call to get the official word or to get it in writing? I hate to re-fly a pile of XC.
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Two options:
Ask who the DPE is that you'll likely be using. Ask them; or
Call the Flight Standard District Office and ask to have a GA Operations Inspector call you back, and explain it to them.

And yes, I wrote 90 when I meant 50.

I'm sure there are some Counsel opinion(s) on point, but I don't know of them off the top of my head. Ron Levy might be able to rattle off the opinion.
 
TMetzinger said:
I'm sure there are some Counsel opinion(s) on point, but I don't know of them off the top of my head. Ron Levy might be able to rattle off the opinion.
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There are, but i can't cite them from memory. However, on this particular point, it's pretty cut and dried -- if you go 51+ nm A to B and then onward, that leg and everything you fly thereafter are all XC for PP/IR/CP experience purposes.
 
I really appreciate the replies. (Also, I'm under part 61 too if it affects anything but I didn't see a distinction)
 
hhins said:
Thanks :)

It still seems open to interpretation somewhat but in reading that, one landing needs to be 50+ and then I can hit any airport of any distance during that trip and record it all as XC, PIC for my training.

The reason I ask is that my old school had me record my solo XC (2.5h PIC, XC in my example above) but the new school isn't buying it which is somewhat disconcerting of the school itself, they say only the 1.5 is XC, the rest is just solo PIC.

Who do I call to get the official word or to get it in writing? I hate to re-fly a pile of XC.
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Ask your new school to show you a FAR that says it isn't XC.
 
In a 2008 Chief Legal Counsel Letter of Interpretation to Thomas Sisk prepared by Adrianne Wojcik, Rebecca McPherson notes:

As noted above, cross-country flight time is defined as time acquired during a flight that includes a point oflanding that is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nm from the original point of departure, not the original point of any flight leg. There is no requirement that any specific leg must be 50 nm. Moreover, a cross-country flight may include several legs that are less than a straight-line distance of more than 50 nm from the original point of departure. Nevertheless, at least one leg of the cross-country flight, however long by itself, must include a point of landing that is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 om from the original point of departure (Le. of the flight, not of that particular leg).
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Ms. McPherson goes on to state:

Given the above analysis, the answer is each cross-county flight used to meet the aeronautical experience requirements under 14 CFR §61.1 (b)(3) must include one leg that includes a landing that is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 om from the original point of departure.
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http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...00/interpretations/data/interps/2008/Sisk.pdf
 
Thank you Douglas.

OP (Original Poster), print out the Counsel opinion and take it to your school.
 
It's odd that the name of the person who requested the interpretation is redacted. They're not like that on the FAA site.
 
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Ron Levy said:
While the VanZanen letter you posted contains reference to the Sisk letter posted earlier, the repositioning discussion is superfluous to the OP's situation, and the Sisk letter covers the OP's case completely.
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Although the subject is repositioning, there is language in that letter that refers to distances between airports, etc.

Bob
 
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