Logbooks

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

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Personal opinions here: How do you keep your flight time in logbooks? Right now, I only have ASEL time in the book, so I have no need for anything special in terms of record keeping. For those of you who log multi-engine, sailplane, IFR, Jet, turbine, etc: do you keep separate books? I'm looking to maybe do some gliding, and it seems it would make sense to keep a separate log for something like this.

Side question: How would PIC time be logged when flying with another non-CFI pilot? Would it be half/half (or any combination adding up to the full time of the flight) or could each person log PIC? I suppose neither could log dual.
 
I have logged a few minutes of hang gliding time in a separate log. However, there is no time logged for the hours carrying it up hill...:goofy:
 
Just have additional columns in the log for AMEL, ASEL, etc.

A computerized log is good for things like designating an airplane as complex or turbine or turboprop so you can track that time too. In a paper log I added columns for high-performance and complex and turboprop time.
 
ebykowsky said:
Personal opinions here: How do you keep your flight time in logbooks? Right now, I only have ASEL time in the book, so I have no need for anything special in terms of record keeping. For those of you who log multi-engine, sailplane, IFR, Jet, turbine, etc: do you keep separate books? I'm looking to maybe do some gliding, and it seems it would make sense to keep a separate log for something like this.
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If you don't have seperate columns in your log now for it then, just add some when necessary.

ebykowsky said:
Side question: How would PIC time be logged when flying with another non-CFI pilot? Would it be half/half (or any combination adding up to the full time of the flight) or could each person log PIC? I suppose neither could log dual.
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PIC is simply the one acting as such. You cannot split the time in half, unless of course you transferred the controls for the second half of the flight. Both can log PIC if one is in the role of safety pilot while the other is under the "hood." No you cannot log dual, unless one is a CFI and giving instruction.
 
ebykowsky said:
Personal opinions here: How do you keep your flight time in logbooks? Right now, I only have ASEL time in the book, so I have no need for anything special in terms of record keeping. For those of you who log multi-engine, sailplane, IFR, Jet, turbine, etc: do you keep separate books? I'm looking to maybe do some gliding, and it seems it would make sense to keep a separate log for something like this.
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As stated by others, that's why they have lots of different columns in log books. Trying to keep separate logs seems awfully difficult.

Side question: How would PIC time be logged when flying with another non-CFI pilot? Would it be half/half (or any combination adding up to the full time of the flight) or could each person log PIC? I suppose neither could log dual.
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Your supposition is correct -- you'd need an authorized instructor giving training to do that. How they would log it depends on what they are doing. In most cases, each would log the time s/he was actually flying the plane as PIC time, as authorized by 61.51(e)(1)(i), and not log the time s/he wasn't manipulating the controls.

The one typical exception to that for light plane flying would be if the pilot flying was using a vision restricting device for simulated instrument practice, making two pilots required for the operation under 91.109(c). In that case the pilot flying would log PIC time under 61.51(e)(1)(i), regardless of which pilot is acting as PIC. If the safety pilot is acting as PIC, s/he would also log PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(iii), but otherwise, log SIC time under 61.51(f)(2).
 
I have over 800 hrs of glider time logged in just a separate column of my logbooks. That is why they have blank columns. Other people prefer separate logbooks. Do it however you prefer.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
One logbook for everything.

Bob Gardner
 
Ron Levy said:
As stated by others, that's why they have lots of different columns in log books. Trying to keep separate logs seems awfully difficult.
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This.

And, there's probably a few columns in your logbook that you don't expect to use any time soon. I have Rotorcraft Helicopter and Dual Instruction Given crossed out in favor of ASES and Glider. Once I get my CFI, I plan to close out my first logbook and get a new one with more columns in it.
 
If you think you will ever seek out a flying job, I would definitely keep stuff in one log book. Recruiters love to see varied experience. Other than that, it's really your call. I know plenty of guys that have a separate book for gliders.
 
I've only been to one interview (my current job) where someone looked at my logbooks. He vaguely flipped through the pages while he was talking to me. The only comment I can remember him making was that I had quite a bit of mountain experience which was one of the things they were looking for.
 
Once you are all you are ever going to be, keeping a log book can be a fun activity and it's for your benefit mostly (although there are the three TO/Lnd to record), so you can log anything you want in about any column you want.

So I put tailwheel, sail plane, ultralight, even taxi test, in my logbook, and rename columns for whatever I want to use that column for. The only thing I actually total is PIC. So from one page to the next, the column can change heading.
 
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What do those people with electronic logbooks do when they have a job interview? Bring their laptop?
 
Sac Arrow said:
What do those people with electronic logbooks do when they have a job interview? Bring their laptop?
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Most of them have extensive printing options. I use LogTen Pro, and it comes with templates that duplicate many of the common logbooks, as well as various forms for various countries - You can directly print out an 8710 from it, for example. And even though it didn't come with a printing option that duplicated the look of my logbook, I was able to easily generate a new print template for it that did. While I didn't actually print anything out, I did make PDF files, and it helped me to catch a TON of errors in my paper logbook.
 
ebykowsky said:
Personal opinions here: How do you keep your flight time in logbooks? Right now, I only have ASEL time in the book, so I have no need for anything special in terms of record keeping. For those of you who log multi-engine, sailplane, IFR, Jet, turbine, etc: do you keep separate books? I'm looking to maybe do some gliding, and it seems it would make sense to keep a separate log for something like this.

Side question: How would PIC time be logged when flying with another non-CFI pilot? Would it be half/half (or any combination adding up to the full time of the flight) or could each person log PIC? I suppose neither could log dual.
Click to expand...

I keep a paper logbook of my flights for CFI sign-offs and currency requirements. It doesn't have totals.

I keep a paper logbook in my aircraft for all flights and a notation of who was the pilot flying or anything else of interest. It doesn't have totals.

I keep an electronic logbook of all my flights and let the computer compute totals. This logbook is simply a spreadsheet that I keep on a cloud so that it is available on any computer from any location. If I need an additional column, I simply add it. It has columns for various things such as single-engine, multi-engine, PIC, SIC, glider, etc.

I frequently fly with another pilot. Before flight, we decide who is the pilot flying, who is logging PIC, and who is logging SIC. When I fly with a CFI, we both log PIC time if I am the pilot flying. If he is the pilot flying, then I don't. When I fly as a safety pilot, I log SIC time while the PIC is flying under the hood.

I also like to keep track of the purpose of the flight: training, $100hamburger, vacation, animal rescue, pleasure flight. I record who flew with me and if something interesting happened: lost alternator, flew over Grand Canyon.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why? Just bring all the logbooks to the interview. I think I am on my eighth logbook now.
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I'll bet your eight logs are consecutive, not concurrent. I've had a client with one log for helo and one for fixed wing, running concurrently, and it was a pain in the neck to figure it all out. I'm guessing a prospective employer would also feel that pain.
 
Like someone else said, you can print a report or an exact copy like the Jepp master logbook.

For professional pilots, electronic log books are the bomb. Very easy to report different things like how much time in make and model for insurance. Most have some form of electronic back up. I use SafeLog myself.

The other feature is the ability of saving a photo. Take a snap shot of instructor sign off and peg them to an entry. I assume the FAA would accept these. Maybe Ron can chime in on this one.




Sac Arrow said:
What do those people with electronic logbooks do when they have a job interview? Bring their laptop?
Click to expand...
 
jonnyjetprop said:
The other feature is the ability of saving a photo. Take a snap shot of instructor sign off and peg them to an entry. I assume the FAA would accept these. Maybe Ron can chime in on this one.
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The reg clearly states that the instructor must sign the logbook. Stick-on labels appear to be OK, but there is nothing from the FAA saying that a picture of a signature is "acceptable to the Administrator." So, it sounds like uncharted territory to me. At the end of the day, based on what it says in the AC on electronic signatures, the question will be whether it can be demonstrated that the pictured entry was actually for the the individual concerned (stick-on endorsements written IAW AC 61-65 typically state of the name and often the pilot certificate number of the endorsee), and that there was no undetectable way to alter it.
 
I think I have about a dozen, some of each as to time-line. Anybody who wants to look at them is welcome to the entire pile.

Ron Levy said:
I'll bet your eight logs are consecutive, not concurrent. I've had a client with one log for helo and one for fixed wing, running concurrently, and it was a pain in the neck to figure it all out. I'm guessing a prospective employer would also feel that pain.
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Everskyward said:
I've only been to one interview (my current job) where someone looked at my logbooks. He vaguely flipped through the pages while he was talking to me. The only comment I can remember him making was that I had quite a bit of mountain experience which was one of the things they were looking for.
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Any of those 121 interviews? I have never heard of a 121 outfit that didn't look at logs.
 
I just have a separate logbook for ultralight time. I suppose I could also use the same book for both and just not include the U/L hours in the totals, but I had an extra one lying around anyway...

-Rich
 
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