local clearance

[ESbuilder]

where I do all of my flying out of you can request a local clearance w/ tracon say if you VFR but your destination in their coverage got clouded to shoot a GPS or VOR approach or w/e and they'll give it to you w/o having to contact FSS

i've never been in position to ask for one from anywhere else... is this something specific to only certain facilities or is it commonly accepted / in the regs (I couldnt find anything)

 

[jesse]

where I do all of my flying out of you can request a local clearance w/ tracon say if you VFR but your destination in their coverage got clouded to shoot a GPS or VOR approach or w/e and they'll give it to you w/o having to contact FSS

i've never been in position to ask for one from anywhere else... is this something specific to only certain facilities or is it commonly accepted / in the regs (I couldnt find anything)

Wow, your question is very hard to understand. Try to read your sentence after you compose it.... I think you're referring to a "pop-up" IFR clearance. They are common and often granted if the controllers workload permits.

Read the following article:
http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183174-1.html

 

[ESbuilder]

Wow, your question is very hard to understand. Try to read your sentence after you compose it.... I think you're referring to a "pop-up" IFR clearance. They are common and often granted if the controllers workload permits.

Read the following article:
http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183174-1.html

Thanks, thats what I was talking about. I was confused b/c long time ago someone told me the only reason I got them w/ my home airport was because of a letter of agreement.

clear now

 

[KennyFlys]

I think the question is geared more toward "Local IFR" where you're staying within the local facility's service area. We do that out of Austin's Class Charlie. When calling clearance, we simply request "local IFR" and they will give you a non-local squawk but not enter the flight plan into the NAS. This is done primarily for practice approaches at nearby airports.

 

[tonycondon]

i also somewhat regularly get local IFR clearances from des moines to hop from Ames to Des Moines or Ankeny. or for a local IFR training flight with a student

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks, thats what I was talking about. I was confused b/c long time ago someone told me the only reason I got them w/ my home airport was because of a letter of agreement.

clear now

What made the question difficult is that you seemed to be talking about two completely different concepts.

One is "Local IFR" which Kenny described. You want to do an IFR flight in the local area. No prior flight plan required, a call to the clearance delivery facility, and off you go. That a geographic variation. Some facilities do it; others don't.

The other is a "pop-up" clearance. You are on a VFR flight and the weather changes so you want to get an IFR clearance. No prior flight plan, just a call to the Center or Approach facility wherever you are. That's more universal. It's generally available most everywhere subject mostly to controller workload - they'll do it if they're not too busy; won't if they are. (I imagine some places are so busy, they'll almost never do it)

 

[KennyFlys]

What made the question difficult is that you seemed to be talking about two completely different concepts.

One is "Local IFR" which Kenny described. You want to do an IFR flight in the local area. No prior flight plan required, a call to the clearance delivery facility, and off you go. That a geographic variation. Some facilities do it; others don't.

The other is a "pop-up" clearance. You are on a VFR flight and the weather changes so you want to get an IFR clearance. No prior flight plan, just a call to the Center or Approach facility wherever you are. That's more universal. It's generally available most everywhere subject mostly to controller workload - they'll do it if they're not too busy; won't if they are. (I imagine some places are so busy, they'll almost never do it)

Jesse had mentioned the pop-up clearance. I've also done a pop-up but it was still considered local IFR since I was at a nearby airport returning through IMC between that airport and AUS.

One distinction is if you do a pop-up IFR, it's usually taken directly by the center controller. If it's a VFR flight plan, they'll send you off to flight service.

 

[midlifeflyer]

One distinction is if you do a pop-up IFR, it's usually taken directly by the center controller.

It depends. My experience has been it's whatever controller covers your airspace. If it's Center, it's taken by Center; if you're in TRACON airspace, it's taken by TRACON.

I've gotten pop-ups from both. And from Approach controllers, it has not always been to their local airport, so it wasn't "local IFR" by any stretch. And I've gotten approach control pop-ups in places that don't do the other form of "local IFR" at all.

If it's a VFR flight plan, they'll send you off to flight service.

If its a VFR flight plan, ATC is probably not going to bother creating something for you that they don't care about. We're talking strictly IFR here. And if the controller you call is too busy, if it's an IFR flight plan they'll also send you off to flight service.

 

[KennyFlys]

It depends. My experience has been it's whatever controller covers your airspace. If it's Center, it's taken by Center; if you're in TRACON airspace, it's taken by TRACON.

I've gotten pop-ups from both. And from Approach controllers, it has not always been to their local airport, so it wasn't "local IFR" by any stretch. And I've gotten approach control pop-ups in places that don't do the other form of "local IFR" at all.

Sorry, you're correct. I was thinking center because around here you don't get too far (20-25 miles) before Austin TRACON dumps you on center. In Atlanta, you'd be with TRACON for nearly a hundred miles around Atlanta.

 

[gprellwitz]

That sounds like you might have been using Tower EnRoute Control (TEC):

a. TEC is an ATC program to provide a service to aircraft proceeding to and from metropolitan areas. It links designated Approach Control Areas by a network of identified routes made up of the existing airway structure of the National Airspace System. The FAA initiated an expanded TEC program to include as many facilities as possible. The program's intent is to provide an overflow resource in the low altitude system which would enhance ATC services. A few facilities have historically allowed turbojets to proceed between certain city pairs, such as Milwaukee and Chicago, via tower en route and these locations may continue this service. However, the expanded TEC program will be applied, generally, for nonturbojet aircraft operating at and below 10,000 feet. The program is entirely within the approach control airspace of multiple terminal facilities. Essentially, it is for relatively short flights. Participating pilots are encouraged to use TEC for flights of two hours duration or less. If longer flights are planned, extensive coordination may be required within the multiple complex which could result in unanticipated delays.
b. Pilots requesting TEC are subject to the same delay factor at the destination airport as other aircraft in the ATC system. In addition, departure and en route delays may occur depending upon individual facility workload. When a major metropolitan airport is incurring significant delays, pilots in the TEC program may want to consider an alternative airport experiencing no delay.
c. There are no unique requirements upon pilots to use the TEC program. Normal flight plan filing procedures will ensure proper flight plan processing. Pilots should include the acronym "TEC" in the remarks section of the flight plan when requesting tower en route control.
d. All approach controls in the system may not operate up to the maximum TEC altitude of 10,000 feet. IFR flight may be planned to any satellite airport in proximity to the major primary airport via the same routing.

Does that sound like what you were getting? (I realize you weren't specifying "TEC" in the comment field).
Actually, I retract that question (but leave it here for historical purposes.) You appear to say that you took off VFR but needed IFR services to go to your airport of intended landing. That would be the pop-up IFR clearance previously mentioned. It's covered (a bit) in

Flight Plan- IFR Flights ​

a. General
1. Prior to departure from within, or prior to entering controlled airspace, a pilot must submit a complete flight plan and receive an air traffic clearance, if weather conditions are below VFR minimums. Instrument flight plans may be submitted to the nearest FSS or ATCT either in person or by telephone (or by radio if no other means are available). Pilots should file IFR flight plans at least 30 minutes prior to estimated time of departure to preclude possible delay in receiving a departure clearance from ATC. In order to provide FAA traffic management units strategic route planning capabilities, nonscheduled operators conducting IFR operations above FL 230 are requested to voluntarily file IFR flight plans at least 4 hours prior to estimated time of departure (ETD). To minimize your delay in entering Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas at destination when IFR weather conditions exist or are forecast at that airport, an IFR flight plan should be filed before departure. Otherwise, a 30 minute delay is not unusual in receiving an ATC clearance because of time spent in processing flight plan data. Traffic saturation frequently prevents control personnel from accepting flight plans by radio. In such cases, the pilot is advised to contact the nearest FSS for the purpose of filing the flight plan.
NOTE-
There are several methods of obtaining IFR clearances at nontower, non-FSS, and outlying airports. The procedure may vary due to geographical features, weather conditions, and the complexity of the ATC system. To determine the most effective means of receiving an IFR clearance, pilots should ask the nearest FSS the most appropriate means of obtaining the IFR clearance.

 

[sba55]

I suspect that it's not much more work to enter a popup clearance compared to giving someone VFR flight following. It becomes more time consuming if you have a specific route in mind.

I get a popup clearance from Center all the time when I go to LA. Usually, I just wait until I'm talking to Oakland Center, than ask for IFR direct LHS VOR. Takes 20 seconds, and I'm direct LHS, climb and maintain 11,000.

-Felix

 

[gprellwitz]

I suspect that it's not much more work to enter a popup clearance compared to giving someone VFR flight following. It becomes more time consuming if you have a specific route in mind.

I get a popup clearance from Center all the time when I go to LA. Usually, I just wait until I'm talking to Oakland Center, than ask for IFR direct LHS VOR. Takes 20 seconds, and I'm direct LHS, climb and maintain 11,000.

-Felix

I admit that the only time I remember getting a popup is after a breakfast meeting with Dr. Bruce. My IFR flight plan had expired from the system (too much time spent talking! ) and the weather deteriorated en route. I remember having to do pretty much a full flight plan, but I don't remember if they had me switch over to FSS or if Chicago Center or Approach took it. I suspect the former!

 

[sba55]

I admit that the only time I remember getting a popup is after a breakfast meeting with Dr. Bruce. My IFR flight plan had expired from the system (too much time spent talking! ) and the weather deteriorated en route. I remember having to do pretty much a full flight plan, but I don't remember if they had me switch over to FSS or if Chicago Center or Approach took it. I suspect the former!

Probably. I'll have to ask and see if it's time-consuming to get someone a popup clearance. Seems like it should be straight-forward.

 

[gprellwitz]

Probably. I'll have to ask and see if it's time-consuming to get someone a popup clearance. Seems like it should be straight-forward.

I remember actually having some security concerns about reading my phone and address over the open airwaves.

 

[sba55]

I remember actually having some security concerns about reading my phone and address over the open airwaves.

Every time I've asked for one, they don't want any of that. It goes sort of like this:

Oakland, Baron 123 got time for a popup?
Baron 123, say destination and requested altitude.
Oakland, 123 destination Ontario, altitude 11,000.
123, stand by....15 seconds pass....
123, cleared to Ontario via LHS direct, maintain 11,000.

That's if you're already on FF. Also, I usually wait until I'm clear of the class B. If you're not, you might get a more complicated routing. With this clearance, once I get closer to Los Angeles, I get an amended routing, like V459 V186 PDZ (how can you just switch airways without a fix)...and then of course the very odd "depart Pomona on the 070 radial", even though Pomona isn't part of my routing. And of course I'll be at 5000' on the downwind mid-field when they clear me to land with "make it a short approach please, there's a 737 on a 8 mile final". Luckily, 2000 fpm wasn't a problem in the Bo. I could rant on....there's all sorts of oddities with LA Center/Approach. But never any delays!

But, I suspect you don't have to do much other than the above for a popup with most Centers.

-Felix

 

[gprellwitz]

Every time I've asked for one, they don't want any of that. It goes sort of like this:

Oakland, Baron 123 got time for a popup?
Baron 123, say destination and requested altitude.
Oakland, 123 destination Ontario, altitude 11,000.
123, stand by....15 seconds pass....
123, cleared to Ontario via LHS direct, maintain 11,000.

That's if you're already on FF. Also, I usually wait until I'm clear of the class B. If you're not, you might get a more complicated routing. With this clearance, once I get closer to Los Angeles, I get an amended routing, like V459 V186 PDZ (how can you just switch airways without a fix)...and then of course the very odd "depart Pomona on the 070 radial", even though Pomona isn't part of my routing. And of course I'll be at 5000' on the downwind mid-field when they clear me to land with "make it a short approach please, there's a 737 on a 8 mile final". Luckily, 2000 fpm wasn't a problem in the Bo. I could rant on....there's all sorts of oddities with LA Center/Approach. But never any delays!

But, I suspect you don't have to do much other than the above for a popup with most Centers.

-Felix

I remember I was heading from KJVL to 1C5, and would have been on a routing via (approximately) DPA. They did want the full flight plan filled out. I won't get into oddities in the ORD vicinity.

 

[sba55]

I remember I was heading from KJVL to 1C5, and would have been on a routing via (approximately) DPA. They did want the full flight plan filled out. I won't get into oddities in the ORD vicinity.

Interesting, maybe it depends on some additional factors I don't know about.

The only thing I noticed flying in Chicago's airspace was that it seemed like only Fedex (or maybe UPS) planes were on the frequency around 8pm.

-Felix

 

[midlifeflyer]

That sounds like you might have been using Tower EnRoute Control (TEC):

Maybe. But even TEC is done differently in different parts of the country. I understand that in parts of the West Coast (SoCal folks can correct me on this) it translates into a form of longer-range "local IFR". You can call CD and aks for TEC to KXYZ without a prior flight plan.

In the northeast, it's treated exactly the same as the published Preferred IFR routings (both Preferred IFR and TEC Routes are published in the AFD), something to help with your IFR planning and =filing= decisions. The only difference between the two is that TEC routes are in areas where TRACON areas continually abut each other and at certain altitudes, you'd never be out of some TRACON airspace.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I admit that the only time I remember getting a popup is after a breakfast meeting with Dr. Bruce. My IFR flight plan had expired from the system (too much time spent talking! ) and the weather deteriorated en route. I remember having to do pretty much a full flight plan, but I don't remember if they had me switch over to FSS or if Chicago Center or Approach took it. I suspect the former!

I remember actually having some security concerns about reading my phone and address over the open airwaves.

I remember I was heading from KJVL to 1C5, and would have been on a routing via (approximately) DPA. They did want the full flight plan filled out. I won't get into oddities in the ORD vicinity.

Grant,

You were probably talking to FSS (ATC has never asked me for the whole batch of info like the phone number, etc. when air-filing, only type/equipment, route, etc.). The other option in that area is Rockford Approach. Or were you still on the ground re-filing with JVL after not being able to pick up your original clearance?

 

[gprellwitz]

Grant,

You were probably talking to FSS (ATC has never asked me for the whole batch of info like the phone number, etc. when air-filing, only type/equipment, route, etc.). The other option in that area is Rockford Approach. Or were you still on the ground re-filing with JVL after not being able to pick up your original clearance?

I departed JVL VFR after I was unable to pick up the IFR clearance. I think you're right that it was FSS. Maybe Leslie remembers.