Liveaboards, got a question for ya

Live aboard is different than cruising.
The former you’re in a marina or designated Anchorage for long stretches, have access to a vehicle, storage unit, electricity if in a marina, etc,
Cruising you’re sailing from place to place, you walk alot to get to the grocery store,etc.

I’ve done both, I switch to a live aboard after buying my plane. They are different, mindset is different if cruising because you need to be self sufficient.


Tom
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
@James331
I have some insider contacts at Perkins if you decide to buy and have issues getting parts. It may not help, but just letting you know.
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Thanks, I was told to swap out the 15hp for a freshly overhauled 30hp, so I might go that route once I get the boat down here.
 
James331 said:
Survey came out clean, few minor cosmetics elebow grease fixes and needs new batteries (thinking of Lithium-Iron Phosphat), well I’m a owner now!
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Very cool! What exactly did you buy? In the first post you mentioned something 33 feet and then linked the Mystic 30 a couple times. I'm a little confused.

Your ambitions for upgrades on this boat are big and expensive. Repower and a lithium battery bank, big dollars. I'd advise to only do what is absolutely necessary for safety, function and certain comforts you can't do without for the first year. That way if the "bigger-boatitis" overwhelms you, you haven't dumped a huge load of money in this one, you can go get that bigger boat. You said this was just a proof of concept boat, don't burn too many boat bucks ($1k) on it.

What type and size battery bank does it currently have?

And I want some boat pics!
 
Mystic 30 (which is 33 on deck)
 

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Fiveslide said:
Very cool! What exactly did you buy? In the first post you mentioned something 33 feet and then linked the Mystic 30 a couple times. I'm a little confused.

Your ambitions for upgrades on this boat are big and expensive. Repower and a lithium battery bank, big dollars. I'd advise to only do what is absolutely necessary for safety, function and certain comforts you can't do without for the first year. That way if the "bigger-boatitis" overwhelms you, you haven't dumped a huge load of money in this one, you can go get that bigger boat. You said this was just a proof of concept boat, don't burn too many boat bucks ($1k) on it.

What type and size battery bank does it currently have?

And I want some boat pics!
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I do need the batteries 12v ( group 27 as I recall), currently she has two for the whole boat, what would y’all recommend?
 
James331 said:
I do need the batteries 12v ( group 27 as I recall), currently she has two for the whole boat, what would y’all recommend?
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I'd figure out what how many amps I'll use base on equipment and build a house bank of the Duracell 6v golf cart batteries to match that number. Finding power draw numbers for equipment on board is just a Google away. You shouldn't need that many amps, perhaps 4 batteries, then a dedicated 12v starting battery and circuit. Then invest in a decent inverter/charger to keep them topped up while at the dock. Then go do some cruising. A bigger alternator is probably a better investment than a solar charging system at this point. A simple system with relatively cheap components.

If you find you're the type that likes to find a remote Anchorage rather than a cool new town to visit, then start to put together a solar charging system to match you usage as best you can.

Sam's club has those Duracells for $90.

Only if I was made of money would I put a lithium bank in a starter boat.
 
Fiveslide said:
I'd figure out what how many amps I'll use base on equipment and build a house bank of the Duracell 6v golf cart batteries to match that number. Finding power draw numbers for equipment on board is just a Google away. You shouldn't need that many amps, perhaps 4 batteries, then a dedicated starting battery and circuit. Then invest in a decent inverter/charger to keep them topped up while at the dock. Then go do some cruising. A bigger alternator is probably a better investment than a solar charging system at this point. A simple system with relatively cheap components.

If you find you're the type that likes to find a remote Anchorage rather than a cool new town to visit, then start to put together a solar charging system to match you usage as best you can.

Sam's club has those Duracells for $90.

Only if I was made of money would I put a lithium bank in a starter boat.
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The other thing that this boat is reminding me of, if I upgraded to a ameal or something big, I’m not sure single handing it would be as advisable, sailing or even docking, might not always be single handed, but having some 120lb blonde who can’t parallel park her boxter, that can be even more work than single hand lol

But yeah, the golf cart batteries seem like a good bet, I will be on the hook when I cruise though, that was part of the reason I went this route


On a side note, what’s the hive opinion on the spot gen 3? Aside from a epirb I’d like a good tracker that doesn’t just send a SOS, and if a SOS is sent won’t just go into the black hole of .gov, unless the sar/sat folks will release the lat/Lon to my friends, co workers and family.
 
James331 said:
The other thing that this boat is reminding me of, if I upgraded to a ameal or something big, I’m not sure single handing it would be as advisable, sailing or even docking, might not always be single handed, but having some 120lb blonde who can’t parallel park her boxter, that can be even more work than single hand
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It takes practice. I took my San Juan 21 out a couple days ago in wind so strong it wouldn't back out of my slip with the little trolling motor. Coming back in was even more interesting because reverse wouldn't stop the boat. You build your skills and your confidence as you go. Spring lines are your friend.

You start out calling the marina to get dock hands to catch you coming in the slip, you put some scratches on the boat along the way. Eventually you kindly, or not so kindly in some cases, tell the dock hands to keep their hands off your boat, that you got this. Because a lot of those scratches will have come from the dock hands pulling a line too tight. Sometimes you throw the dock hands a dock line not attached to the boat to give them something to hold while you do everything the right way.

Docking an underpowered, high windage sailboat is a lot like landing a plane. It starts with a good approach. If you don't nail the approach, go around. There is no shame in going around, even multiple times. The real shame starts when you ding your neighbor's boat.
 
Fiveslide said:
It takes practice. I took my San Juan 21 out a couple days ago in wind so strong it wouldn't back out of my slip with the little trolling motor. Coming back in was even more interesting because reverse wouldn't stop the boat. You build your skills and your confidence as you go. Spring lines are your friend.

You start out calling the marina to get dock hands to catch you coming in the slip, you put some scratches on the boat along the way. Eventually you kindly, or not so kindly in some cases, tell the dock hands to keep their hands off your boat, that you got this. Because a lot of those scratches will have come from the dock hands pulling a line too tight. Sometimes you throw the dock hands a dock line not attached to the boat to give them something to hold while you do everything the right way.

Docking an underpowered, high windage sailboat is a lot like landing a plane. It starts with a good approach. If you don't nail the approach, go around. There is no shame in going around, even multiple times. The real shame starts when you ding your neighbor's boat.
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Sounds much like docking a float plane
 
James331 said:
Sounds much like docking a float plane
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I helped a guy push his Lake back into inlet off the Chesapeake Bay. He'd just had to put a new windshield in after he crashed it into the dock. I think he landed for crappy weather and got blown into the fixed dock, he was probably hoping for floating docks.

So... Yes.
 
As far as docking goes, the ol' saw "Slow is Pro" is serious... maintain just enough motion to have steerage. As you say, my guess is that if you can dock a float plane, you won't have any trouble at all. Remember that, unlike a car, the boat steers by pivoting in the middle or thereabouts. If the bow is swinging one way, the stern is swinging the other. Backing up is more difficult to get used to than going forward, dependent upon where your prop is in relation to your rudder. If you're not familiar w/ prop walk, read up on it.. it's your friend. As another poster has already said, spring lines are awesome and solve many difficult situations easily. The first couple times I docked our 26' in a crowded marina, I was scared out of my mind and my wife was having panic attacks. Now, it's relaxing in almost every case (unless the wind is howling, but fortunately the marina we use 95% of the time is very sheltered).. just go slow. NO jumping off the boat onto the dock. If you can't step off leisurely and walk faster than the boat is moving, you're doing it wrong.

Re/ batteries and charging via shore power... make sure you are up-to-snuff on your knowledge of galvanic corrosion. Many times, your marina and/or your neighbors may not be. Get an isolation transformer. Read this... https://www.cruisingworld.com/keep-corrosion-at-bay/
On our Pearson 26, we have a radio, knotmeter, depth meter, wind instrument, LED deck and interior lights, and regular incandescent NAV and mast lights. A standard group 27 battery charged by the miniscule charging circuit of our 8hp Johnson Sailmaster during motors from the dock to sailing area, then returning after a full day of sailing, coupled w/ a 50w solar panel when we aren't at the boat keeps it going no problem. Obviously, you probably have much greater draw (if you have a fridge or A/C, you'll need a BUTTLOAD more capacity). The 6v golf cart battery tip in series (or series/parallel if you decide to put in four of them) is a very good one economically, but they'll be heavy and take up space.

Sailing is a great companion to flying. The cost of entry is much less, the frustrations, expense, and time spent on maintenance are at least as large (sigh) and usually more uncomfortable and unpleasant, and, like flying, it's usually about 98% beauty and boredom interspersed with 2% sheer terror. Having an infinitely adjustable wing (the sails) is really fun.
 
Yup, slow is pro, and nobody wished they were going faster when they hit the dock. As for windage, always try to use the wind to your advantage when docking, try to have the wind blow you in a favorable direction etc.
 
How goes boat ownership, @James331 ? I don't think you ever said how far away the boat is or if you have to move it to "your" closer marina.

MuseChaser said:
Sailing is a great companion to flying. The cost of entry is much less, the frustrations, expense, and time spent on maintenance are at least as large (sigh) and usually more uncomfortable and unpleasant, and, like flying, it's usually about 98% beauty and boredom interspersed with 2% sheer terror.
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I used to tell people sailing was the most fun way to go 7 miles an hour, the most boring way to go 7 miles an hour, the most terrifying way to go 7.5 miles an hours.
 
I used to race MC Scows and A scows, when those suckers get up on plane, it IS exciting!
 
Fiveslide said:
How goes boat ownership, @James331 ? I don't think you ever said how far away the boat is or if you have to move it to "your" closer marina.



I used to tell people sailing was the most fun way to go 7 miles an hour, the most boring way to go 7 miles an hour, the most terrifying way to go 7.5 miles an hours.
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Hey!

Going pretty good, I’m getting a new jib made up right now as the old one ripped the second time I unfurled it, it was the only sail I was going to replace anyways, just thought it would make it for the season.

Also after sailing for a bit I noticed both little rule 1000 bildge pumps were stuck on and not flowing any water out, tapped them but still on
 
James331 said:
Hey!

Going pretty good, I’m getting a new jib made up right now as the old one ripped the second time I unfurled it, it was the only sail I was going to replace anyways, just thought it would make it for the season.

Also after sailing for a bit I noticed both little rule 1000 bildge pumps were stuck on and not flowing any water out, tapped them but still on
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Check the automatic switches. On some of the Rules, they're built into the pump, some are external. They get clogged easily. I replaced our Rule two years ago w/ a Whale SuperSub that had a sensing switch w/ no moving parts. So far so good, but reviews are mixed. We don't get any water at all in our bilge except during extended hard driving rain (slight seepage at one porthole and one deck fitting...to be adressed this coming season) so the pump only runs when I test it prior to leaving the boat.
 
MuseChaser said:
Check the automatic switches. On some of the Rules, they're built into the pump, some are external. They get clogged easily. I replaced our Rule two years ago w/ a Whale SuperSub that had a sensing switch w/ no moving parts. So far so good, but reviews are mixed. We don't get any water at all in our bilge except during extended hard driving rain (slight seepage at one porthole and one deck fitting...to be adressed this coming season) so the pump only runs when I test it prior to leaving the boat.
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I’ll look into that, yeah it’s a internal rule. Only water this boat seems to get is a drip every 4-6 seconds from the cutlass bearing. Shortly before I ripped the yankee jib she was doing a good 7kts in whitecaps she was dry as a bone.
 
James331 said:
I’ll look into that, yeah it’s a internal rule. Only water this boat seems to get is a drip every 4-6 seconds from the cutlass bearing. Shortly before I ripped the yankee jib she was doing a good 7kts in whitecaps she was dry as a bone.
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That’s not a cutlass bearing that’s leaking. :rolleyes:
 
James331 said:
The other thing that this boat is reminding me of, if I upgraded to a ameal or something big, I’m not sure single handing it would be as advisable, sailing or even docking, might not always be single handed, but having some 120lb blonde who can’t parallel park her boxter, that can be even more work than single hand lol

But yeah, the golf cart batteries seem like a good bet, I will be on the hook when I cruise though, that was part of the reason I went this route


On a side note, what’s the hive opinion on the spot gen 3? Aside from a epirb I’d like a good tracker that doesn’t just send a SOS, and if a SOS is sent won’t just go into the black hole of .gov, unless the sar/sat folks will release the lat/Lon to my friends, co workers and family.
Click to expand...

If you can’t single hand a 30 foot boat, you got problems. My last boat was a 50, and I single handed it just fine. My present boat is 44, again, no big deal.
 
Doc Holliday said:
If you can’t single hand a 30 foot boat, you got problems. My last boat was a 50, and I single handed it just fine. My present boat is 44, again, no big deal.
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We are not all as cool as you doc lol

Will you be my hero?


And yes stuffing box
 
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I'm a greener sailor than I am a pilot, so as usual I know very little. I can single-hand our 26' Pearson, but it's a bit nervewracking geting the sails down. None of the lines are led aft and I don't have a furler, so it means going to the mast and sometimes having to go foreward to nudge the headsail down and make sure it stays onboard. The actual sailing and docking are non-events. Having your 30 footer rigged for single-handing and getting comfortable doing so shouldn't be a tall order.. you'll be fine.
 
MuseChaser said:
I'm a greener sailor than I am a pilot, so as usual I know very little. I can single-hand our 26' Pearson, but it's a bit nervewracking geting the sails down. None of the lines are led aft and I don't have a furler, so it means going to the mast and sometimes having to go foreward to nudge the headsail down and make sure it stays onboard. The actual sailing and docking are non-events. Having your 30 footer rigged for single-handing and getting comfortable doing so shouldn't be a tall order.. you'll be fine.
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I’m not too worried about it, I will be much happier once I get the staysail on a furler, right now the yankee is on a furler and the main has a stack pack which is great, having everything furl or stack pack will be ideal
 
I would not furl your staysail...only because I might want to have someplace to put up a storm jib if you really do plan to cruise in open water...then again you would need a storm jib...and if you need to put up storm jib your probably in the wrong boat...furling would be a low priority unless you want to spend money but that’s me.
 
Warlock said:
I would not furl your staysail...only because I might want to have someplace to put up a storm jib if you really do plan to cruise in open water...then again you would need a storm jib...and if you need to put up storm jib your probably in the wrong boat...furling would be a low priority unless you want to spend money but that’s me.
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My understanding is I could furl one in if needed, or realistically just furl the staysail up and reef the main down

The boat will be doing some blue water stuff, at least FL to Bahamas, up and down the coast
 
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Doc Holliday said:
If you can’t single hand a 30 foot boat, you got problems. My last boat was a 50, and I single handed it just fine. My present boat is 44, again, no big deal.
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That's what I love about PoA...the world's best pilots and the world's best sailors congregate here. :rolleyes:
 
James331 said:
My understanding is I could furl one in if needed, or realistically just furl the staysail up and reef the main down

The boat will be doing some blue water stuff, at least FL to Bahamas, up and down the coast
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The problem with furling is the sail rises as you furled, where ideally you want the bulk of the sail to remain low. Old fashioned hanked on staysail or storm jib keeps the forces low, makes for a better ride and easier on the rigging.


Tom
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
The problem with furling is the sail rises as you furled, where ideally you want the bulk of the sail to remain low. Old fashioned hanked on staysail or storm jib keeps the forces low, makes for a better ride and easier on the rigging.
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Agree, if I were to do a cutter, I'd want the jib on a furler and a normally reefed staysail, and it would be nice if that staysail was club footed.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Agree, if I were to do a cutter, I'd want the jib on a furler and a normally reefed staysail, and it would be nice if that staysail was club footed.
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Which is about how she is now, problem is single handing it that staysail turns to a hot mess when you drop it.

Thinking if it’s sporty out, reef the main and only fly the small staysail
 
MuseChaser said:
I'm a greener sailor than I am a pilot, so as usual I know very little. I can single-hand our 26' Pearson, but it's a bit nervewracking geting the sails down. None of the lines are led aft and I don't have a furler, so it means going to the mast and sometimes having to go foreward to nudge the headsail down and make sure it stays onboard. The actual sailing and docking are non-events. Having your 30 footer rigged for single-handing and getting comfortable doing so shouldn't be a tall order.. you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

I think a very important piece of equipment for a single hander is a decent auto pilot. Something that can keep you pointed into the wind when hoisting and dousing sails is great, even if you never use it for anything else. I'm searching for a used tiller pilot now. The cove I live in is great, I can usually go to one side or the other to get a little protection from the wind till I get sails up or down, but it still gets a little exciting sometimes, jumping back down in the cockpit cause the boat fell off too far downwind with the main halfway up.

I don't care who you are. You do not jump on a 50' or 44' boat and single hand it with none to little experience. Even docking a 30' boat without experience isn't just a piece of cake. That sounds more than a bit like bragging.
 
Fiveslide said:
I think a very important piece of equipment for a single hander is a decent auto pilot. Something that can keep you pointed into the wind when hoisting and dousing sails is great, even if you never use it for anything else. I'm searching for a used tiller pilot now. The cove I live in is great, I can usually go to one side or the other to get a little protection from the wind till I get sails up or down, but it still gets a little exciting sometimes, jumping back down in the cockpit cause the boat fell off too far downwind with the main halfway up.

I don't care who you are. You do not jump on a 50' or 44' boat and single hand it with none to little experience. Even docking a 30' boat without experience isn't just a piece of cake. That sounds more than a bit like bragging.
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She’s got a autopilot which I think is really basically mandatory.

Per docs claims, that is the result of a man who legit drank his own kool-aid
 
Fiveslide said:
I think a very important piece of equipment for a single hander is a decent auto pilot. Something that can keep you pointed into the wind when hoisting and dousing sails is great, even if you never use it for anything else. I'm searching for a used tiller pilot now. The cove I live in is great, I can usually go to one side or the other to get a little protection from the wind till I get sails up or down, but it still gets a little exciting sometimes, jumping back down in the cockpit cause the boat fell off too far downwind with the main halfway up.

I don't care who you are. You do not jump on a 50' or 44' boat and single hand it with none to little experience. Even docking a 30' boat without experience isn't just a piece of cake. That sounds more than a bit like bragging.
Click to expand...

If that last bit about bragging was aimed at me and the post you quoted, I sure did NOT mean it that way.. I started out by saying ".. I know very little," and did not mean to imply in any way that hopping on a 44' boat with no experience and single handing it would be a good idea. Ideas don't get much WORSE than that. I'm just saying that I'm a sailor with limited experience, but I'm able to single hand our 26' Pearson w/out a furler or aft-led lines safely, and that one can learn to single hand a 30 footer with a furler and lines led aft easily. I have a friend who IS very experienced, and he single hands his 44' Passport (gorgeous boat) routinely.

An autotiller or autopilot sure does make things easier, but isn't necessary. On my boat with just the main up, it has a good amount of weather helm... untended, it'll point into the wind. Departing... main up, sheeted in lightly for a bit of weather helm, then go forward, hoist headsail, return to cockpit, sheet in foresail, tune main for balance, and off we go. Returning... slacken mainsheet slightly, let headsail luff, weather helm keeps boat pointed into wind, go forward, drop and gather headsail, return to cockpit, drop main, and back to dock. I've never had to even tie off the tiller.

Of course, the usual caveats.. ALWAYS have a life jacket on. I do NOT single hand in anything other than benign conditions, and I practiced single handing with other sailors aboard many times before doing it myself. It is STILL a little ... ummm..."exciting" for me to do this. Not bragging at all. Not a task to do lightly or just hop on a boat and go, and I am NOT great at it. If you can learn to fly a plane, as James certainly has, I'm sure singlehanding a 30' boat, properly rigged, is something he'll be able to learn to do and enjoy.
 
MuseChaser said:
If that last bit about bragging was aimed at me and the post you quoted, I sure did NOT mean it that way.. I started out by saying ".. I know very little," and did not mean to imply in any way that hopping on a 44' boat with no experience and single handing it would be a good idea. Ideas don't get much WORSE than that. I'm just saying that I'm a sailor with limited experience, but I'm able to single hand our 26' Pearson w/out a furler or aft-led lines safely, and that one can learn to single hand a 30 footer with a furler and lines led aft easily. I have a friend who IS very experienced, and he single hands his 44' Passport (gorgeous boat) routinely.

An autotiller or autopilot sure does make things easier, but isn't necessary. On my boat with just the main up, it has a good amount of weather helm... untended, it'll point into the wind. Departing... main up, sheeted in lightly for a bit of weather helm, then go forward, hoist headsail, return to cockpit, sheet in foresail, tune main for balance, and off we go. Returning... slacken mainsheet slightly, let headsail luff, weather helm keeps boat pointed into wind, go forward, drop and gather headsail, return to cockpit, drop main, and back to dock. I've never had to even tie off the tiller.

Of course, the usual caveats.. ALWAYS have a life jacket on. I do NOT single hand in anything other than benign conditions, and I practiced single handing with other sailors aboard many times before doing it myself. It is STILL a little ... ummm..."exciting" for me to do this. Not bragging at all. Not a task to do lightly or just hop on a boat and go, and I am NOT great at it. If you can learn to fly a plane, as James certainly has, I'm sure singlehanding a 30' boat, properly rigged, is something he'll be able to learn to do and enjoy.
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No, that part was not meant for you. I just didn't quote doc.
 
I prefer a safety harness with safety lines rigged down both sides vs life jacket.
Autopilots break, below deck ones break less, but be prepared for when it does.


Tom
 
MuseChaser said:
If that last bit about bragging was aimed at me and the post you quoted, I sure did NOT mean it that way.. I started out by saying ".. I know very little," and did not mean to imply in any way that hopping on a 44' boat with no experience and single handing it would be a good idea. Ideas don't get much WORSE than that. I'm just saying that I'm a sailor with limited experience, but I'm able to single hand our 26' Pearson w/out a furler or aft-led lines safely, and that one can learn to single hand a 30 footer with a furler and lines led aft easily. I have a friend who IS very experienced, and he single hands his 44' Passport (gorgeous boat) routinely.

An autotiller or autopilot sure does make things easier, but isn't necessary. On my boat with just the main up, it has a good amount of weather helm... untended, it'll point into the wind. Departing... main up, sheeted in lightly for a bit of weather helm, then go forward, hoist headsail, return to cockpit, sheet in foresail, tune main for balance, and off we go. Returning... slacken mainsheet slightly, let headsail luff, weather helm keeps boat pointed into wind, go forward, drop and gather headsail, return to cockpit, drop main, and back to dock. I've never had to even tie off the tiller.

Of course, the usual caveats.. ALWAYS have a life jacket on. I do NOT single hand in anything other than benign conditions, and I practiced single handing with other sailors aboard many times before doing it myself. It is STILL a little ... ummm..."exciting" for me to do this. Not bragging at all. Not a task to do lightly or just hop on a boat and go, and I am NOT great at it. If you can learn to fly a plane, as James certainly has, I'm sure singlehanding a 30' boat, properly rigged, is something he'll be able to learn to do and enjoy.
Click to expand...

I’m not too worried, I’m just taking it slow, thus the ICW vs pickup some time going on the other side, spend a ton of time sailing when I was younger, lived aboard too, but things take a little time to come back, plus new things to learn, I’ll just take her easy and conservative, just like a new to me plane, and let things progress naturally.
 
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