List of Canceled NDB Approaches

[BruceAir]

The FAA has published the list of 216 NDB approaches that will be canceled next month (link courtesy of AOPA). Note that the list does not coincide with a roll call of decommissioned navaids. The FAA has just decided not to flight check and otherwise maintain the IAPs associated with those navaids.

My question to the group is, other than during training or for an IPC or other proficiency check, how often have you flown an NDB approach "for real," as in you used one to find your way to the runway while operating IFR? And if you can answer "more than once" to the first question, when was the last time you did so?

I've probably done a couple of NDB approaches "for real" in some 25 years of IFR flying, but the last one was ages ago, and I had a GPS moving map as backup. Of course, I do them all the time in the Frasca 142, various Cessnas, and the Bonanza (and enjoy watching students struggle with them), but that doesn't count.

 

[wsuffa]

None for real. We pulled the ADF and put in a Garmin 430 before my instrument checkride. I did a few for training before then.

My question would be: Of these NDB approaches, how many are regularly working NDB's, and how many are either OTS or were OTS for extended periods? I see Blue Ash, Ohio on the list... it was OTS for periods as long as 2 years. Most folks flying into ISZ use one of the GPS approachs or the VOR-24.

 

[SkyHog]

curious - we used to have an NDB approach at Double Eagle (KAEG), but its not on the list. I wonder if it disappeared for a different reason.

 

[jdwatson]

I'll miss the ones at TTA, TDF & RWI just for the "fun" of training on them.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

My question to the group is, other than during training or for an IPC or other proficiency check, how often have you flown an NDB approach "for real," as in you used one to find your way to the runway while operating IFR? And if you can answer "more than once" to the first question, when was the last time you did so?

Flown an NDB in actual,"for real"?: Several times (don't remember the exact number, but less than 10), plus navigated via an NDB (SARNIA) for ~45 minutes in actual.

Question you didn't ask but should have:

Of those approaches (or in my case, en route navigation), how many times was that the only approach/route you could use to that destination (or along that route)?: Every single one.

Last time I did so?: Maybe 3(?) or was it 4(?) years ago.

Later edit - It hasn't been as long since an NDB approach for real as I first thought. Ron's post reminded me that I flew the NDB into Cambridge, MD ~ 1 year ago. Maybe slightly more.

 

[poadeleted20]

Done it for real a number of times at Martin State ('twas the only way in on 15) and Easton (only way in period) in the Cheetah and Cougar before we got GPS in each (first four years with Cheetah and first three with Cougar). Still do it periodically at Cambridge (only choices are NDB and GPS) in actual in the school planes which lack GPS. If you don't have an approach GPS, there are quite a few airports around the Mid-Atlantic region where the only alternative is an NDB approach, and that's why we still train for them at our school. When every IFR plane has IFR approach GPS, or when there's a VOR/LOC-based alternative at every airport, I'll consider not training our students on ADF/NDB approaches, but not until then.

 

[Carol]

Does "on my instrument checkride" count as "for real"? If so then it was in 1998. None since then. Have practiced them under the hood though using the GPS. The ADF was removed when the GPS was installed in the panel.

 

[BruceAir]

OK, next question, then.

Has anyone ever done one of those wingtip-bearing-change exercises to figure distance to, time to a station (VOR or NDB) while actually flying?

 

[AdamZ]

Now there is something that just makes no sense. ( Gov't involved so no surprise) The Ambler Beacon ING in Amber PA has been listed as OTS for over a year now. Can't use it but its not on the list They don't fix it so why not eliminate the approach?

Only time we uses ADFs were in the FTD. None worked in the planes during training

 

[Arnold]

My question to the group is, other than during training or for an IPC or other proficiency check, how often have you flown an NDB approach "for real," as in you used one to find your way to the runway while operating IFR? And if you can answer "more than once" to the first question, when was the last time you did so?

Probably well over one hundred maybe over 200. NDB approaches were the only useful approaches into 6B6 and PYM when I was based at each. PYM was an all weather check operation it was only one approach a night, but it was five nights a week for almost two years.

Last time - I don't remember, it has been a loooong time.

 

[Ryan Ferguson]

OK, next question, then.

Has anyone ever done one of those wingtip-bearing-change exercises to figure distance to, time to a station (VOR or NDB) while actually flying?

Only during instrument training flights! For the most part, it's a useless exercise in the real world. But I've found that teaching the technique helps some pilots who are dealing with a spatial orientation learning plateau. Exercises the membrane just a little bit.

 

[poadeleted20]

Has anyone ever done one of those wingtip-bearing-change exercises to figure distance to, time to a station (VOR or NDB while actually flying?

Nope. Never in training, never on a practical test, and never for real. Only time ever was on the Instrument and Instrument Instructor writtens.