Limits of operating an aircraft when not current

Exocetid

Exocetid

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Exocetid
I am not current (late by a few months on my FR), but my medical is valid. I want to go and start up my plane and taxi it around. I am guessing that is legal since I don't plane to TO.

What about a fast taxi on the runway?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No flight, no foul.
Click to expand...

I recall an article in one of the flying mags where a pilot landed, had dinner and some beer or wine, then returned to the airport just to move his plane to a different spot on the airport. In doing so, the airplane got damaged by taxiing into an unseen ditch or something. Long story short, the pilot got his commercial license revoked.

I, personally, would not worry in a case like the OP's. But honestly, I would not have worried in the above case either. So some caution is probably warranted.
 
I'm surprise the above case guy reported it, drinking and taxi, something happens, probably best to pull the plane into a hangar and take the damage out of pocket.
 
Who's to know,untill something goes wrong,I would talk to my insurance agent.
 
James331 said:
I'm surprise the above case guy reported it, drinking and taxi, something happens, probably best to pull the plane into a hangar and take the damage out of pocket.
Click to expand...
That makes a lot of sense. When I went from ppl to light sport I bought an aeronca champ 85 hp. I had not flown in some time but learned to fly in a champ years before. It never crossed my mind to get checked out. It was delivered to my home field. I quickly got in and flew the wings off it. The first check ride was a year later later at my bi annual.i had around 3500 hours total at this time, about 2800 hrs in tail draggers. I should add that this was at a small upstate NY airport where people who like a former major airline pilot kept a clippwing cub that he performed amazing things in over the field and had not seen a doctor or a biannual in 15 years, at least.
 
Last edited:
FastEddieB said:
Found it - gotta love Google:

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2003/February/1/Pilot-Counsel-(2)

Definitely worth a read.
Click to expand...
(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:
(3) Misuse of a substance that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the substance involved, finds—
(i) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or
(ii) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

Ok, you can get busted for being drunk.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No flight, no foul.
Click to expand...

Sooooo...I went down, pulled her out and taxied around without actually going onto a taxiway--there's a lot of tarmac around the public hangars. I was able to warm up the engine, do a run-up, check the prop, scrub the rust off the brakes, etc., but I would have liked to do a "fast taxi" down a runway. It's a towered airport.

As for the drinking, etc., well, you can look at a plane like a car when it's on the ground--don't drive (your aircraft) buzzed.
 
The bottom line is insurance. Apparently the FAA does not care much as long as the aircraft is not in flight, then rules apply (VFR & IFR).

Insurance distinguishes between in motion (taxi) and not in motion (hangared/tied down/parked).

Taxiing apparently is nothing more than driving a vehicle around. Presumably an airplane is at an airport, and driving it around is nothing more than driving a tug or golf cart in terms of responsibility.
 
FastEddieB said:
Found it - gotta love Google:

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2003/February/1/Pilot-Counsel-(2)

Definitely worth a read.
Click to expand...

Let me start off with this, that pilot should have moved that plane before going out drinking.

That said, I'm not a fan of the FAAs actions ether.

Just goes to show getting a lawyer against a FAA action is pointless, they will bend any FAR past the breaking point to peg the person and the appeals process seems like more of a process in futility. Unless your name is Hoover, or you can get the mainstream media involved, if the FAA sets their sights on you, regardless of the facts, from what I've read, you're screwed. This guy would have been better off, walking away from the airport to.... get help, and maybe getting lost along the way for say 8-10 hours.

Personally I just make sure my plane is completely filed away before I hit the bar, nothing wrong with getting some beers with friends and cutting loose, but just like any good flight, you got to have good pre planning before you launch ;)
 
I dunno. Let's say an Inspector was hanging out at the airport, sees you taxing around, then you do the high speed taxi down the runway. You return back to your hangar or parking area. He casually walks over and shoots the breeze with you. Then he asks for your PPC & med and asks when was your last FR. Now what?

Very unlikely scenario, just throwing it out there.
 
I'm wondering what purpose is served by high speed taxiing down a runway.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm wondering what purpose is served by high speed taxiing down a runway.
Click to expand...

Fast taxi allows you to "fly" an aircraft on the ground. You just take it up near rotation speed, but don't. Gives you engine cooling and exercises everything without actually flying. A runway is a great place to do this, especially a long one.
 
mscard88 said:
I dunno. Let's say an Inspector was hanging out at the airport, sees you taxing around, then you do the high speed taxi down the runway. You return back to your hangar or parking area. He casually walks over and shoots the breeze with you. Then he asks for your PPC & med and asks when was your last FR. Now what?
Click to expand...
Show it to him.

Point out that your medical has expired and your last flight review was 25 years ago.

What is he/she/it going to do? Claim " careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another" because you lack paperwork?

Claim that you were acting as PIC in flight when you didn't fly?

Which regulation spells out the certificate / medical / currency requirements to taxi an airplane (at any speed)?
 
This is exactly why I posted this query.

I have done fast taxi before (while current). You just call the tower and request 'fast taxi'. When they give you the runway, you are legal to use it and at any speed you like. What you do not have is permission to TO.

The conclusion here is that no one has been able to cite the regulation that "spells out the certificate / medical / currency requirements to taxi an airplane (at any speed)?"
 
Exocetid said:
Fast taxi allows you to "fly" an aircraft on the ground. You just take it up near rotation speed, but don't. Gives you engine cooling and exercises everything without actually flying. A runway is a great place to do this, especially a long one.
Click to expand...
What is the purpose of exercising everything?
 
Why not just sit in it and turn the yoke and make engine noises? It'd be equally useful to you and would be better for the airplane.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Claim " careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another" because you lack paperwork?QUOTE]

Yeah that would probably be it. It's there in Part 91 if he wants to look it up, or you do. I know the reg already as any pilot should. And I did say highly unlikely this would happen. But you never know when an Inspector is around.
Click to expand...
 
There's obviously some risk in high speed taxiing, it is sometimes warranted for maintenance, or pilot training, but for sheer exhilaration?
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm wondering what purpose is served by high speed taxiing down a runway.
Click to expand...

Trying to stand on the brakes at full power doesn't always work very well. It's also hard on the props and requires more concentration than just a high speed taxi down a runway.

A few weeks ago, I went with a friend to check out a 414 that had been sitting for a few weeks. We did a high speed taxi to make sure both engines were making full power. We found out the left engine's turbo was seized, and the right engine's fuel flow read way high. This was very easy and safe to check with two pilots on a 6800 ft runway, it would've been less so at a run-up pad.

Years ago, before I had my multi rating (but owned my Aztec), I washed it. I think that was the only time I washed it, actually, but I did a high speed taxi to dry it off instead of once around the pattern since I was not legal to go around the pattern solo, and my instructor was not available.

In the case of the OP, no, there's nothing wrong with doing a high speed taxi. Flight occurs if the plane leaves the ground.
 
GlennAB1 said:
When does "a flight" or "the flight" technically begin?
Click to expand...
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

So, In general I would say that "the flight" begins when you start moving for the purpose of flight. At that time, some person is acting as the "pilot in command" and needs to be up to snuff on currency, etc.

There is nothing that I can find that says that "Taxiing with no intent to leave the ground" is flying. And nothing that spells out any currency / certificate requirements to taxi.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

So, In general I would say that "the flight" begins when you start moving for the purpose of flight. At that time, some person is acting as the "pilot in command" and needs to be up to snuff on currency, etc.

There is nothing that I can find that says that "Taxiing with no intent to leave the ground" is flying. And nothing that spells out any currency / certificate requirements to taxi.
Click to expand...
My point is: Someone damages an aircraft while taxiing and they return and park. They "say" they never intended to take off, of course.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Trying to stand on the brakes at full power doesn't always work very well. It's also hard on the props and requires more concentration than just a high speed taxi down a runway.

A few weeks ago, I went with a friend to check out a 414 that had been sitting for a few weeks. We did a high speed taxi to make sure both engines were making full power. We found out the left engine's turbo was seized, and the right engine's fuel flow read way high. This was very easy and safe to check with two pilots on a 6800 ft runway, it would've been less so at a run-up pad.

Years ago, before I had my multi rating (but owned my Aztec), I washed it. I think that was the only time I washed it, actually, but I did a high speed taxi to dry it off instead of once around the pattern since I was not legal to go around the pattern solo, and my instructor was not available.

In the case of the OP, no, there's nothing wrong with doing a high speed taxi. Flight occurs if the plane leaves the ground.
Click to expand...
Those sound like good reasons.
 
GlennAB1 said:
When does "a flight" or "the flight" technically begin?
Click to expand...

Well, you can log flight hours when the airplane moves with the intention of flight. If there is never an intention to fly then you can't log hours and therefore I'd reason that a flight never happened.
 
Palmpilot said:
Those sound like good reasons.
Click to expand...

I try to have good reasons for what I do with airplanes.

"Hold my beer and watch this!" doesn't usually go over well.
 
Exocetid said:
I am not current (late by a few months on my FR), but my medical is valid. I want to go and start up my plane and taxi it around. I am guessing that is legal since I don't plane to TO.

What about a fast taxi on the runway?
Click to expand...
Um, why don't you put a CFI in the right seat and get current? It's only an hour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top