Light Sport Pilots (I learned something new, I think)

TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
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Tim
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Just got the slides for FAASTEAM CFI workshop #3 and the two core topics are:

Sport pilots and Light Sport Airplanes
IACRA

One thing stated in the presentation is that sport pilots cannot fly in furtherance of a business, nor demonstrate aircraft in flight to a buyer, nor participate in a charitable airlift. The furtherance of a business language was something I'd missed earlier.

Which to me means that a sport pilot may not ferry an LSA for a flight school (i.e. for maintenance), even if they aren't paid/compensated in ANY way, since that's in furtherance of a business.

Also (from the presentation speaker notes - and this content comes direct from FAA HQ:)

The talk around your airport is that sport pilots are not required to hold a medical certificate – but be careful saying that – because under the official definition, they DO hold a medical certificate. However, a sport pilot is not required to have the traditional medical certificate issued by an Airman Medical Examiner. (read the definition of medical certificate on the screen)

A sport pilot must possess either a traditional medical certificate issued by an AME or a current and valid US driver’s license
A sport pilot may use his/her driver’s license as the acceptable evidence of physical fitness.​
 
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dmccormack said:
Wow..is there a physical standard for driver's licenses??
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Yes there is. In addition to others' comments, your right to drive an automobile has not been taken away because of medical issues, mental issues :mad2:, DUI :mad3:, to many speeding tickets :nono: or other reasons for the State DMV to recind your auto license. :no: Your family or your family doctor thinks it's time for you to no longer be driving. :yikes:

There are a variety of ways to be "restricted" "grounded" "without wings or wheels". :mad:
 
TMetzinger said:
Just got the slides for FAASTEAM CFI workshop #3 and the two core topics are:

Sport pilots and Light Sport Airplanes
IACRA

One thing stated in the presentation is that sport pilots cannot fly in furtherance of a business, nor demonstrate aircraft in flight to a buyer, nor participate in a charitable airlift. The furtherance of a business language was something I'd missed earlier.

Which to me means that a sport pilot may not ferry an LSA for a flight school (i.e. for maintenance), even if they aren't paid/compensated in ANY way, since that's in furtherance of a business.
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IMO moving an airplane to another airport for maintenance is never a "furtherance of a business" issue with the possible exception of a pilot who's business is aircraft maintenance and then it's likely a commercial operation anyway.

IMO, what "furtherance of a business" is intended to cover are things like flights to visit customers or transporting product (when no charge is made for the transport).
 
...and I agree with both Lance and the Cap'n.

Bob Gardner
 
gismo said:
IMO moving an airplane to another airport for maintenance is never a "furtherance of a business" issue with the possible exception of a pilot who's business is aircraft maintenance and then it's likely a commercial operation anyway.

IMO, what "furtherance of a business" is intended to cover are things like flights to visit customers or transporting product (when no charge is made for the transport).
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OK, here's the question:

You're a CFI working for an SP flight school. One of the LSA's needs to be ferried for an oil change. You're going to be compensated (at your usual rate) for the flight.

Do you need a current medical for this flight? If so, what class?

My read is that YES, you do. The flight may be incidental to your business, and only require private privileges, but if it's incidental to your business (which could mean you don't need a commercial and second class) then it's in furtherance of your business, which means it's a private pilot privilege and you need at least a third class.
 
TMetzinger said:
You're a CFI working for an SP flight school. One of the LSA's needs to be ferried for an oil change. You're going to be compensated (at your usual rate) for the flight.

Do you need a current medical for this flight? If so, what class?

My read is that YES, you do. The flight may be incidental to your business, and only require private privileges, but if it's incidental to your business (which could mean you don't need a commercial and second class) then it's in furtherance of your business, which means it's a private pilot privilege and you need at least a third class.
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Assuming it's not your own airplane (i.e., you don't own the flight school)...

In this case, it's not "incidental" to your business. The only reason you have for going to the other location is to move the plane, not because your presence is requried at the other location. Therefore, you're being compensated for providing pilot services, and no other reason. That means you need a CP/ATP ticket and a medical valid at least at the Second Class level.

Note that if you are only a CFI-SP (not CFI-ASE) with only a PP or SP ticket behind it, you can't do this at all unless you pay full rate for the flight time. However, if you have a student who needs the training, you could have the student pay for the flight time and then you can be compensated for giving training on the flight without having a medical certificate other than your DL.
 
I agree. Now, assume that you DO own (in whole or in part) the school, and the plane is on leaseback. What, if anything, changes?
 
TMetzinger said:
I agree. Now, assume that you DO own (in whole or in part) the school, and the plane is on leaseback. What, if anything, changes?
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Depends on how the contract is written, i.e., who's responsible for getting the plane to the shop. If it's the school, no biggie for the owner to do it himself even on a PPL/3rd Class (incidental to his business). If it's the owner, the school would be providing pilot services to the owner, and that makes it a "quid pro quo" deal requiring a CP/ATP and 2nd Class medical. At least, that's how I see it.
 
The only way I think this flight could be made WITHOUT a medical would be if the owner of the airplane (not the owner of the flight school) made the trip operating under SP privileges.

Even then, one might argue that the airplane owner, by having the airplane on leaseback, has a business interest in getting the maintenance done and therefore must have a private and a 3rd class (I admit this is a stretch).
 
Ron Levy said:
Depends on how the contract is written, i.e., who's responsible for getting the plane to the shop. If it's the school, no biggie for the owner to do it himself even on a PPL/3rd Class (incidental to his business). If it's the owner, the school would be providing pilot services to the owner, and that makes it a "quid pro quo" deal requiring a CP/ATP and 2nd Class medical. At least, that's how I see it.
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Makes sense (FAA sense that is) to me. Of course it's nonsensical (from a non-FAA perspective) that a CFI-SP could make the flight if he had a student along receiving training but not by himself.
 
TMetzinger said:
The only way I think this flight could be made WITHOUT a medical would be if the owner of the airplane (not the owner of the flight school) made the trip operating under SP privileges.
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...without compensation.
Even then, one might argue that the airplane owner, by having the airplane on leaseback, has a business interest in getting the maintenance done and therefore must have a private and a 3rd class (I admit this is a stretch).
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Yeah, I think it is. It's his plane -- he can fly it where he wants, when he wants, at his own expense.
 
gismo said:
Makes sense (FAA sense that is) to me. Of course it's nonsensical (from a non-FAA perspective) that a CFI-SP could make the flight if he had a student along receiving training but not by himself.
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He can do it himself -- as long as he pays for the flying time. If he's acting as an instructor, he's not getting compensated for flying, just for instructing, and that's the difference for the FAA.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yeah, I think it is. It's his plane -- he can fly it where he wants, when he wants, at his own expense.
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That's where the gotcha might come, if the school somehow didn't charge him for the flight (i.e. charged the flight to the school and not the owner in the billing system).
 
TMetzinger said:
That's where the gotcha might come, if the school somehow didn't charge him for the flight (i.e. charged the flight to the school and not the owner in the billing system).
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You got it. Unless it's a sole proprietorship, financially, he is not the school.
 
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