Light Gun Signals

Did your instructor request demonstration light gun signals during your training?

  • Yes, during the day

    Votes: 27 26.0%

  • Yes, at night

    Votes: 4 3.8%

  • No

    Votes: 73 70.2%
  • Total voters
    104
HPNPilot1200

HPNPilot1200

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Jason
Did your instructor(s) request demonstration light gun signals from the tower during any portion of your pilot training so you could see what they look like?

Just curious...

I request them at least once with each of my students at night so they can see what light gun signals actually look like. I have found many students I have flown with who have never seen them before expect a large bright light to glow from the tower and are surprised when they finally spot the small dim light instead.
 
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It was late afternoon.

I got to use them for real on a solo flight when the radio went tango uniform as I was entering the pattern (transmitted in the blind)
 
We got a tower tour and the controllers showed it up there. The controller had to look at the card to see what he was suppose to do with each one - obviously KTOL is not experienced with using the light gun.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Did your instructor(s) request demonstration light gun signals from the tower during any portion of your pilot training so you could see what they look like?

Just curious...

I request them at least once with each of my students at night so they can see what light gun signals actually look like. I have found many students I have flown with who have never seen them before expect a large bright light to glow from the tower and are surprised when they finally spot the small dim light instead.
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Yeah - at least once. And at least one other time on during a flight review. Both times during the day.

Never needed them for real, though.
 
This is like Morse code. It needs to be forgotten and relegated to those hangar flyer sessions where someone needs to win a bet. No one would know what to do if someone pulled out the lights for real. Would they?
 
Not that hard, geez...

Green - go.
Red - stop. (Can't stop in mid-air, so circle.)
Flashing green - come on in/out
Flashing red - go away
Red/Green - Holy Christmas! Be careful! (Get it?)
Flashing White - Do over!
 
Yes indeed my instructor insured I was familiar with light signals by making me use them each and every time I flew. I soloed without using a radio to call the tower---light gun only----:hairraise:

(I soloed 4-24-1954) :rofl:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
 
Geico266 said:
This is like Morse code. It needs to be forgotten and relegated to those hangar flyer sessions where someone needs to win a bet. No one would know what to do if someone pulled out the lights for real. Would they?
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I keep it with me on a clipboard inside my kneeboard (thanks, AOPA). I fly with this (light gun signals list) and also with what do do if / when I'm intercepted, along with other cheats like VFR weather minimums for different airspace, etc. Call them "cheat sheets" if you will.
 
Geico266 said:
This is like Morse code. It needs to be forgotten and relegated to those hangar flyer sessions where someone needs to win a bet. No one would know what to do if someone pulled out the lights for real. Would they?
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Sure I would. The basic gist is green is good and red is bad. I don't have all the light signals memorized but I do have a reference that I could easily access while flying.
 
jesse said:
Sure I would. The basic gist is green is good and red is bad. I don't have all the light signals memorized but I do have a reference that I could easily access while flying.
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So you carry a reference too? Glad I am not the only one.
 
No training, but got them for a real incident when I had about 90 hours TT and had just recently purchased my plane. Just had panel redone. Took off, raised gear, raised flaps, and everything went dark. It was just after sunset. I circled back into pattern while pax in copilot seat manually lowered gear. Tower saw me circle back and nav lights go out, and immeidately started with light signals. Pretty simple and effective. I bought a handheld shortly thereafter and check the batteries regularly.
 
Yes and even needed the solid green once this summer with generator failure.
 
I've never seen them and was never showed them during training. I have what the signals mean in the plane since they are included on the ProPilot checklist I use.

More importantly, I have a cell phone. My home field tower number is in the contacts as is flight service This would be plan A. Plan B would be my hand held, which I have tested with the tower. Plan C would be light signals.
 
Yep, in my first training phase 20 years ago, we flew to a towered airport, got out and went to the tower to meet the guys. They were friendly and helpful. The instructor then stayed in the tower while I went out for a couple of touch and go's. In the process, I got several light gun signals. I was amazed how bright that thing was.

Doc
 
I got my ticket before night flying was required, so I got mine in the day, but my instructor wanted me to see them before solo, and I have always done the same with my trainees.
 
As for whether my instructor ever requested light gun signals....he didn't have to.
The planes I learned in mostly had handheld Terra radios or old crap so they had lots of issues. We got to use the light signals for real and the tower being familiar with the planes didn't hesitate to use them. Reid Hillview has parallel runways as well so that introduced more excitement into the mix. All in all it was a good learning experience which has helped in later life. We had a full electrical shutdown just after going from approach to tower inbound to ABQ some years back (late 90's). Tower used the lights and we called them after landing to say thanks. Training pays off and things do happen.



Frank
 
saracelica said:
We got a tower tour and the controllers showed it up there. The controller had to look at the card to see what he was suppose to do with each one - obviously KTOL is not experienced with using the light gun.
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First time I needed light signals for real was in 1969. I entered the pattern at Fullerton CA transmitting in the blind with an inop receiver.

I got a red light.

I acknowledged the red, departed the pattern and came back ten minutes later.

This time it was green, and I landed.

Once on the ground the old vacuum-tube Narco Mark 12 navcom came back to life. Fullerton Ground said, "Yeah, the reason we gave you a red the first time was 'cuz we pushed the wrong button." :redface:
 
I was quite suprised to see that 2/3s of the instructors referred to in the poll didn't do that for students! Wow...
 
write-stuff said:
I was quite suprised to see that 2/3s of the instructors referred to in the poll didn't do that for students! Wow...
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Me too. Then again, my instructor never did either.

Now that I'm the instructor I try to go above and beyond the normal syllabus and cover those topics I would have found useful as a student. It seems to be particularly effective with primary students (law of primacy).
 
I'm glad my CFIs did that for me - during the day that red/green/white dot isn't very impressive. There was a time, once, when I wasn't receiving but I was pretty sure I was transmitting. I was just about to ask for light signals when I realized that the volume knob had been knocked to low when I was trying to mess with the radio during some pretty heavy turbulence. Dumb thing to do, but it happened and I did figure it out before I got into the tower's airspace.

By the way - my kneeboard has the light signals etched on it.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Me too. Then again, my instructor never did either.
Click to expand...

Nor did mine. But he did point out that my cell phone can plug into my Zulu, and I can make a phone call from outside the delta. I've never had to do that. When I had my electrical failure, I flipped the master off before the entire battery's power went out. Flipped it on when I got near the home base (after flying home some 450 nm VFR) and they cleared me to land 10 miles out. The whole electrical system went out on downwind.
 
I did get training with lightgun signals...after a few trips around the pattern my instructor requested the "Light Show" and we did 2 circuits with light gun signals. We also did a few landings with no landing or taxi light, and that was certainly interesting but gave me a bit of confidence should I have a night electrical or bulb failure.
 
I don't think my instructor ever request the tower to demonstrate them. But it's been a while, perhaps I just don't remember.
 
We went over them briefly by discussion, but my only practical experience was when one of my instructor's comm failed (wrong port).
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Did your instructor(s) request demonstration light gun signals from the tower during any portion of your pilot training so you could see what they look like?

Just curious...

I request them at least once with each of my students at night so they can see what light gun signals actually look like. I have found many students I have flown with who have never seen them before expect a large bright light to glow from the tower and are surprised when they finally spot the small dim light instead.
Click to expand...
What's really amazing is when you're IN the tower and try to hold one of those danged things up. They're HEAVY.
 
Here's the thing about Light Gun signals...

If you're going to ask the tower to use lights for takeoff, you should call ahead anyway. During that prep refresh what color means what.

If you're going to land without comms, you may not get the tower's attention for a LONG time.

(BTDT)

When you finally do get the attention, the colors are green or red. Guess which one you want to see?

Steady Red -- sit and wait.

Flashing red -- think "Ambulance and Fire Trucks" Go somewhere else.

So I don't think it's a big loss if you never did this during training.

:dunno:
 
bbchien said:
What's really amazing is when you're IN the tower and try to hold one of those danged things up. They're HEAVY.
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The few towers I visited had them hanging from the ceiling on retractable cords, making them operable with one hand easily it appeared.
 
jesse said:
Sure I would. The basic gist is green is good and red is bad. I don't have all the light signals memorized but I do have a reference that I could easily access while flying.
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So red alternating with green is good and bad?
 
My instructor asked the tower to do this while we taxied out one day. I was actually surprised by how intense the light was. I haven't seen them from the air. I'm sure with additional distance the signal would be dimmer.
 
Geico266 said:
This is like Morse code. It needs to be forgotten and relegated to those hangar flyer sessions where someone needs to win a bet. No one would know what to do if someone pulled out the lights for real. Would they?
Click to expand...

I've had a light shown to me in a real NORDO situation. It works pretty darn good.

The controller doesn't have to remember the signals any more than you do. It's printed on the light itself. The older ones were plugged into the wall and suspended on a wire. I was in DCA's tower and noted they have cool new "cordless" ones (DCA was also the first tower I'd ever been in that didn't have the walnut grained formica on all the counter surfaces).
 
gismo said:
So red alternating with green is good and bad?
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Pretty much. Good in the sense that you can keep doing what you're doing. Bad in the sense that you need to be careful with no understanding as to why.
 
My first- and last- acquaintance with the light gun was my first long student solo cross-country, (cough-mumble) decades ago. It was about my second or third landing at a towered airport- ever--, so I had my script at the ready. And there was no answer to my call. Still none. The airport was getting much closer. I circled, waggled my wings, and said, Whatsit Tower, Cessna12345, student pilot, not hearing you, landing Whatsit, If you hear me, I need a light. And lo and behold, there was my nice green light. Once on the ground, I played with the balky radio in the antique C-150, figured out what to do about the speaker that wasn't working, (I'm sure it wasn't quite as simple as turn the volume up, but it had to be something about that simple-minded.) Departing was much less stressful than arriving.
 
During my student days, I did take a tour of a local tower. The light gun was dusty and had cobwebs on it.
 
ActiveAir said:
No training, but got them for a real incident when I had about 90 hours TT and had just recently purchased my plane. Just had panel redone. Took off, raised gear, raised flaps, and everything went dark. It was just after sunset. I circled back into pattern while pax in copilot seat manually lowered gear. Tower saw me circle back and nav lights go out, and immeidately started with light signals. Pretty simple and effective. I bought a handheld shortly thereafter and check the batteries regularly.
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I believe (but may be incorrect) that the beam of light is fairly directional and needs to be aimed towards the aircraft the signals are intended for.

Which, if true, means you might not get any light signals if you return to a towered well after sunset with a total electrical failure... It's doubtful the tower would even see you til after you land, with no nav lights or beacon. We have battery powered emergency radios... With energy efficient bright LEDs now, a battery powered backup strobe might not be a bad product idea... Turn it on within 10 miles of the airport.

Edit: the fully charged handheld radio, and tower's number in your cell phone, are better ideas.

And, I've not seen light gun signals but will ask next time I'm flying the pattern at Alliance or Denton, and make a point to see them during both day and night ops.

What's the best source for tower's direct number? Ask them on ground? FSS?
 
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I got to see them as a student pilot in a for-real situation. I was a passenger, going back with my instructor in another CFI's newly-bought plane when the radio went out at KDET during taxi. They got cleared for takeoff via light gun, then figured the glitch out in the air.
 
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