Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houston you don't...

HPNPilot1200

HPNPilot1200

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Jason
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

What the f?

I forwarded this to an FAA inspector friend.


HPNPilot1200 said:
I usually don't link to the following blog very often because many of the posts are fairly heated, but I believe everyone (including the general public) should read the last post.

This is a true example of how utterly stupid and simply uncaring the FAA is not only to their users, but to patients in critical medical conditions.

In critical condition? Don’t count on getting to the hospital too soon in Houston…

Sigh.
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Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Unfortunatly this is not new in Houston. I did a fair amount of Lifeguard flights into the HOU area the last three years. They always kept us on the arrival no matter how much we fussed. I am not in the medical charter business anymore so I dont know if that is still current but it has been in the past. Very sad.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, failure to follow FAA Order 7110.65 (specifically, failure to provide the priority required by Section 2-1-4b) makes the Federal government liable for any consequences. Therefore, I'm pretty sure this internal order will be overruled/rescinded as soon as someone makes a formal complaint about it to the Regional Air Traffic Office with a copy to the FAA Regional and Chief Counsels' offices. And blogs aren't the channel to accomplish that.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Ron Levy said:
Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, failure to follow FAA Order 7110.65 (specifically, failure to provide the priority required by Section 2-1-4b) makes the Federal government liable for any consequences. Therefore, I'm pretty sure this internal order will be overruled/rescinded as soon as someone makes a formal complaint about it to the Regional Air Traffic Office with a copy to the FAA Regional and Chief Counsels' offices. And blogs aren't the channel to accomplish that.
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Hi. I'm the author of the blog posting in question.

I happen to agree with you; our blog isn't going to get things done in terms of correcting this problem.

Our (controllers') problem is that the avenues we DO have to correct these kinds of lousy management decisions are effectively closed off. If we were to argue a policy, we are supposed to go to our supervisor. Guess who he reports to? The manager that made the policy.

If we try to go up the chain, so to speak, and get someone higher up to look at it, much of the time it's either ignored or denied.

For example, pilots have gotten into the bad habit of ignoring the AIM and requesting basic ride/weather information on the center frequencies. I was politely telling them they needed to go to Flight Watch, the FAA's weather specialists. (I know, they might not be all that great, but that's plainly what the orders say pilots are supposed to do.)

I have been counseled on this, but when I challenged the admonishment and pointed out the agency's own written orders that go against what the managers say, they denied the challenge. I did it both through a standard request for interpretation and through a grievance.

What we need is for YOU guys, the users, to complain. And do it effectively and fairly; give the agency a chance to respond, then if/when they stick with their dumb decision, clobber 'em in the media.

The blog is intended to raise awareness. The topics there ARE heated; that's the point. (You're all welcome to visit and comment any time, though- even if you think we're full of hooey. We're controllers, we're good at arguing and can take it. :yes: )

Please feel free to pass it around and let's hope for smooth rides and no delays...
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

The pilot should have declared an emergency. And, in the future, all lifeguard flights in houston should declare emergencies.

Afterall, lifeguard is often pretty damn close to an emergency anyways.

Can someone complain to the FAA about it without having been a party of this, or does someone have to die in the air before the FAA can do something?
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

SkyHog said:
The pilot should have declared an emergency. And, in the future, all lifeguard flights in houston should declare emergencies.

Afterall, lifeguard is often pretty damn close to an emergency anyways.

Can someone complain to the FAA about it without having been a party of this, or does someone have to die in the air before the FAA can do something?
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Read the blog. The CONTROLLER declared an emergency for the pilot. Somebody ran into the manager's office and he ordered the controller to withdraw the emergency and handle the flight as per the STAR.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

mikea said:
Read the blog. The CONTROLLER declared an emergency for the pilot. Somebody ran into the manager's office and he ordered the controller to withdraw the emergency and handle the flight as per the STAR.
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Exactly, at that point, when the controller sent him back, he should have declared an emergency (I did read the blog).

If I were pilot, and went through this, I'd 91.3 my way right to the nearest runway, controller be damned.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Blue Eyed Buddhist said:
Hi. I'm the author of the blog posting in question...

...

Please feel free to pass it around and let's hope for smooth rides and no delays...
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Paul, thanks for taking the time and making the effort. What you describe is the essence of effective activism, and it starts with making those most affected (the pilots) aware of the dynamics we can't see (internal political issues). We can help you "turn over the rock," so the bugs underneath are compelled to scatter.

I have gotten usually-good service from HOU-area controllers, with one notable exception that had me, from being 3 miles or so from LOC intercept at HOU, touring around Houston airspace for 55 minutes. That was fun.

Thanks again for your contribution; drop by anytime, we appreciate having your unique perspective, and you can help us all be safer (and less-irritating to controllers) pilots!

/s/ Spike
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Blue Eyed Buddhist said:
Hi. I'm the author of the blog posting in question. I happen to agree with you; our blog isn't going to get things done in terms of correcting this problem.
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Good.

Our (controllers') problem is that the avenues we DO have to correct these kinds of lousy management decisions are effectively closed off. If we were to argue a policy, we are supposed to go to our supervisor. Guess who he reports to? The manager that made the policy.
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The FAA has an IG complaint system that covers situations in which the problem is a person in the chain of command. Have you used it?

If we try to go up the chain, so to speak, and get someone higher up to look at it, much of the time it's either ignored or denied.
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Have you informed the regional ATC office or the regional/chief counsel's office of this Lifeguard situation?

For example, pilots have gotten into the bad habit of ignoring the AIM and requesting basic ride/weather information on the center frequencies. I was politely telling them they needed to go to Flight Watch, the FAA's weather specialists. (I know, they might not be all that great, but that's plainly what the orders say pilots are supposed to do.) I have been counseled on this, but when I challenged the admonishment and pointed out the agency's own written orders that go against what the managers say, they denied the challenge. I did it both through a standard request for interpretation and through a grievance.
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I'm going to side with your bosses on this one -- unless the frequency is jammed with control instructions, there's no point in having the pilot ask to go off frequency for a minute, and then check back on, for a simple ride report. Pilots and controllers have been passing that information back and forth for as long as I've been flying (and that's almost 40 years) and I just don't see the point in complaining about it unless you really don't have time to tell the pilot what you know from having received ride reports from other planes. Now, I've got no problem with you telling a pilot to go off to Flight Watch if he wants the METARs and TAFs at every airport along his route of flight, but for a quick "How's the ride up ahead" request, if you've been hearing reports all shift, it's faster to give an answer than to try to switch him off.
 
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Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Blue Eyed Buddhist said:
For example, pilots have gotten into the bad habit of ignoring the AIM and requesting basic ride/weather information on the center frequencies. I was politely telling them they needed to go to Flight Watch, the FAA's weather specialists. (I know, they might not be all that great, but that's plainly what the orders say pilots are supposed to do.)
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Are you kidding me? You complained about someone asking you for information that you have access to in an attempt to make their flight safer?

You guys are overworked, I'll completely agree with that, but complaining about stuff like this will hurt your cause more than help, because it just makes it look like y'all will whine about anything.

I mean no offense, but seriously, ride reports and basic weather information is not that hard to relay.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Blue Eyed Buddhist said:
Hi. I'm the author of the blog posting in question.
--- snip ---
For example, pilots have gotten into the bad habit of ignoring the AIM and requesting basic ride/weather information on the center frequencies. I was politely telling them they needed to go to Flight Watch, the FAA's weather specialists. (I know, they might not be all that great, but that's plainly what the orders say pilots are supposed to do.)
--- snip ---
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At a WINGS seminar at Daniel Webster, a representative from NOAA was talking about his various duties and stated that x% (about 5% as I recall) was spent briefing CONTROLLERS on the weather. When questioned about the amount of time NOAA spent briefing FSS, the answer was --ZERO-- They write up their information and post it for FSS to "rip and read".

I, too, have heard controllers repeatedly state they don't have access to weather information. Had one direct us straight into a thunderstorm, then when we complained about lightening strikes visible nearby asked us where we would rather be!!!

(Recognizing this is a thread hijack) What is going on around here?
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

Ron Levy said:
I'm going to side with your bosses on this one -- unless the frequency is jammed with control instructions, there's no point in having the pilot ask to go off frequency for a minute, and then check back on, for a simple ride report. Pilots and controllers have been passing that information back and forth for as long as I've been flying (and that's almost 40 years) and I just don't see the point in complaining about it unless you really don't have time to tell the pilot what you know from having received ride reports from other planes. Now, I've got no problem with you telling a pilot to go off to Flight Watch if he wants the METARs and TAFs at every airport along his route of flight, but for a quick "How's the ride up ahead" request, if you've been hearing reports all shift, it's faster to give an answer than to try to switch him off.
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Ron are you thinking TRACON or Center? My experience is that Class B TRACONS are quite often too busy for ride reports and since their traffic is generally changing altitudes quickly the ride info is less useful other than a heads up to tighten the belts. In a Center, OTOH I agree completely. Help with selecting a cruise altitude on ATC's frequency is the most efficient way to go.
 
Re: Lifeguard Flight Priority. Not in Houson you don't...

lancefisher said:
In a Center, OTOH I agree completely. Help with selecting a cruise altitude on ATC's frequency is the most efficient way to go.
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I agree, but I must say that one of the more surprising things to me when I started flying up in the flight levels is how much of the radio conversation is taken up by airplanes looking for better rides. I'm guessing it involves over 50% of the transmissions at times.
 
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