Life Insurance for Pilots

smbaker

Filing Flight Plan
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smbaker
I'm starting to look at life insurance, and found that my local insurance guy wants either $9,000/yr or an aviation exclusion on the policy. Obviously the former isn't practical. The latter is a possibility, potentially supplementing with AOPA's AD&D insurance. AOPA offers term life, but it seems pricey in comparison to alternatives.

Does anyone have experience with a company called 'Pilot Insurance Center'? They're one of the pilot-specific places I found on the Internet, and they gave me a reasonable quote with no aviation exclusion. I haven't found any independent discussions, so I was hoping to find some experiences, positive or negative, from other pilots before looking into them in more detail.

Alternatively, what are other folks doing on the life insurance front?

Thanks
 
I have one of those no-exam-required, purchased-online policies purchased through Metlife. A lowly $50,000 payout and it's a few hundred bucks per year (high cost due to no exam). I've read the policy they emailed me after I paid cover to cover and can find no mention for or against an aviation related death. This is completely anecdotal, but I've heard that if it isn't explicitly mentioned in the exclusions, you're safe.

I have no idea if this helps you or not, but when the wife said go get life insurance, this is what I did to satiate her nerves.
 
I'm starting to look at life insurance, and found that my local insurance guy wants either $9,000/yr or an aviation exclusion on the policy. Obviously the former isn't practical. The latter is a possibility, potentially supplementing with AOPA's AD&D insurance. AOPA offers term life, but it seems pricey in comparison to alternatives.

Does anyone have experience with a company called 'Pilot Insurance Center'? They're one of the pilot-specific places I found on the Internet, and they gave me a reasonable quote with no aviation exclusion. I haven't found any independent discussions, so I was hoping to find some experiences, positive or negative, from other pilots before looking into them in more detail.

Alternatively, what are other folks doing on the life insurance front?

Thanks
Do you currently have life insurance? If so, does it exclude aviation?
 
I just started taking lessons and my wife made me inquire about the status of our policies. I didnt see it with my own eyes, but my financial advisor says that my Guardian Life Insurance Company of America policies make no mention of aviation.
 
I just started taking lessons and my wife made me inquire about the status of our policies. I didnt see it with my own eyes, but my financial advisor says that my Guardian Life Insurance Company of America policies make no mention of aviation.

If it isn't specifically EXCLUDED, you are covered I believe. I would make sure though.
 
I bought my policy through PIC Life (it's actually with Lincoln Benefit which is now owned by Allstate). About the same time I got a quote from them, I did a SelectQuote request just to see what the difference was and it wasn't particularly different. NEedless to say whatever clown agency AOPA was touting at the time never responded in anything close to an appropriate time (AOPA-recommended deals are never any good for anybody other than AOPA themselves).
 
I carry life ins,with an aviation clause. Got a good quote at the time ,but insured my wife at the same time.the policy will time out as I get older,and become cost prohibited.
 
Be sure you're looking at term life, not the scam called "whole life".

I bought a 20 year $1mill policy with no aviation exclusion at age 33 for $650/yr.
 
Be sure you're looking at term life, not the scam called "whole life".

I bought a 20 year $1mill policy with no aviation exclusion at age 33 for $650/yr.

Yeah, you want term. The rest of that stuff is shady.
 
I have life insurance through the Hartford Group that doesn't exclude aviation activities.
 
I have been looking at switching to Ohio national and they only have exclusions for aerobatics, and flying more than a specified number of hours per year (cannot remember, but I didn't fit the bill at 200hr/yr) . And of course sky diving from a plane (including my own:yikes:)

I think $1 million 10 year term for a 45yr old dude was around $1000/yr
15yr was $1400 and 20 yr was $1800.

Thought it was ridiculous compared to my 20yr term that I took out in my late 20s, but I guess the older you get closer you are to kicking the bucket...
 
I used that Pilot Insurance Center place. They are just brokers. The actual policy ended up being issued under American General. Everything seemed legit.
 
When I renewed my term life policy and had to add aviation, I believe it cost me about 1 & 1/2 times more than without aviation.
 
Life insurance is the world's largest legal Ponzi scheme. Don't you have any kind of 401k or savings ???
 
I use West Coast life.
I asked about aviation. They said "Fly all you want. You're covered"
 
Life insurance is the world's largest legal Ponzi scheme. Don't you have any kind of 401k or savings ???


If I had enough savings in my early 30s to no longer require me to work to support the family, I wouldn't be working!

To support the wife and daughter for the rest of their lives takes 7+ figures, and I ain't got that much lying around in liquid cash.
 
Life insurance is the world's largest legal Ponzi scheme. Don't you have any kind of 401k or savings ???

What's wrong with added insurance?
I have a 401(k), savings, and life insurance.

If I die, my wife doesn't have to cash out my 401(k) or eat up our savings.
Why make the family start over because I augered it in? :dunno:
 
What's wrong with added insurance?
I have a 401(k), savings, and life insurance.

If I die, my wife doesn't have to cash out my 401(k) or eat up our savings.
Why make the family start over because I augered it in? :dunno:


Yep... My thoughts exactly.
 
What's wrong with added insurance?
I have a 401(k), savings, and life insurance.

If I die, my wife doesn't have to cash out my 401(k) or eat up our savings.
Why make the family start over because I augered it in? :dunno:

You knucklehead ! How much further would that money go if you invested it instead of making an insurance jackass richer ???? It's ok, sigh, I have some money with insurance stocks - just keep giving it away
 
Uhh, $650 /year for $1,000,000 in coverage?

I'm sure the numbers work out in favor of the insurance guy, but in the off chance it's needed, I'd say it's money well spent.
 
Uhh, $650 /year for $1,000,000 in coverage?

I'm sure the numbers work out in favor of the insurance guy, but in the off chance it's needed, I'd say it's money well spent.

And that's the kind of thinking that makes the world go around ! Keep paying those premiums instead of investing the money, my retirement thanks you.
 
Buying insurance and investing are also not mutually exclusive.
You don't even want to know how much money I have given to Scott.


....Scott Trade

Plus I only pay $28 per month because I got the policy when I was like 24
It stays $28 / mo until I turn 54. I spend way more than that on coke and whores.
 
Life insurance is the world's largest legal Ponzi scheme. Don't you have any kind of 401k or savings ???

Some folks have to have some way of replacing lost income for their loved ones, independent of their tax deferred retirement savings.

If you have a defined benefit pension with a cost for survivor benefits, its often cheaper to buy a whole-life type policy than pay the ridiculous survivor premiums.

Us military retiree types fall into this category.
 
Life insurance is for people who didn't bother to save a nickel ! And I'm here to shame ALL of you ! But if you want to keep making ME richer it's okay ! I say the same thing about my Phillip Morris Stock too.
 
And that's the kind of thinking that makes the world go around ! Keep paying those premiums instead of investing the money, my retirement thanks you.


Okay-dokey.

I suppose you self-insure everything, right? Your home, car, aircraft, etc?

I invest more than that on a weekly basis. It's a minor expense to know the family is covered (permanently) if I die...
 
Okay-dokey.

I suppose you self-insure everything, right? Your home, car, aircraft, etc?

I invest more than that on a weekly basis. It's a minor expense to know the family is covered (permanently) if I die...

If you TRULY have ANY kind of a portfolio your family IS COVERED !
 
My portfolio is less that $1mil, hence the need for life insurance.
 
Art, why are you being an *******? You sound like a pompous teenager; are you trolling for a reason?
 
Pretty sure Art must be posting in-character as George Costanza.

So I'm going to through the application process now and curious what others are carrying vs what they pay. Anyone willing to share some data points? I'm looking at $1k/yr per each $1MM of coverage on Term 20 w/ Minnesota Life brokered through PIC (in my early 40s). Anyone else seeing anything significantly different?
 
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Uhh, $650 /year for $1,000,000 in coverage?

I'd say it's money well spent.

You are 100% correct. A ten year term plan would equal $6500. There is the old 7 in 10 rule. So if you used that adage you have spent your 650 dollars a year very wisely, it is a drop in the bucket vs the unforeseen payoff and no other way to match the term payoff.

Now I never said don't max out your 401K etc., and be a wise investor/saver....
 
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'm looking at $1k/yr per each $1MM of coverage on Term 20 w/ Minnesota Life brokered through PIC (in my early 40s). Anyone else seeing anything significantly different?

I'm in my early 40s and seeing quotes much higher than that. ~ $2200/yr from PIC for $1 million in coverage, 20 year term.

How is your health?

I do fly low hours per year, and my local guy said the underwriters didn't like that. Maybe the same thing happened on the PIC quote. I guess they like to see enough hours to know you're keeping good and proficient.
 
I'm in my early 40s and seeing quotes much higher than that. ~ $2200/yr from PIC for $1 million in coverage, 20 year term.

How is your health?

I do fly low hours per year, and my local guy said the underwriters didn't like that. Maybe the same thing happened on the PIC quote. I guess they like to see enough hours to know you're keeping good and proficient.


Are you instrument rated?
 
I'm in my early 40s and seeing quotes much higher than that. ~ $2200/yr from PIC for $1 million in coverage, 20 year term.

How is your health?

I do fly low hours per year, and my local guy said the underwriters didn't like that. Maybe the same thing happened on the PIC quote. I guess they like to see enough hours to know you're keeping good and proficient.

Ask them what it takes. YOu may be able to knock out the IFR/ or Comm rating and save money...

See, flying more could save you money.. :yes:
 
Try west coast.
I pay $336/ yr for 500,000 locked in for 30 years
 
Do you currently have life insurance? If so, does it exclude aviation?


Yes. Simplest way to get it right is just to ask. My underwriter had a simple piece of paper which wanted to know ratings, and hours flown that year. There was zero price change after they processed the answers. It also gives us a way to point and say "they took the aviation risk" if they want to play stupid on a payout on a fatal aviation accident. Nice to have that in writing with all the legal reindeer games one could encounter.

Yeah, you want term. The rest of that stuff is shady.


It can be. There are some very specific tax reasons one might use such a tool, but they're not common.

Term is what the vast majority of folks should purchase. Any of the others tend to look like good investments but have onerous fees associated with them which eat (especially in today's wimpy markets and low interest rates) all the profits.

Life insurance is the world's largest legal Ponzi scheme. Don't you have any kind of 401k or savings ???



You knucklehead ! How much further would that money go if you invested it instead of making an insurance jackass richer ???? It's ok, sigh, I have some money with insurance stocks - just keep giving it away


There are specific uses for it. In our case, term is cheap and is specifically structured to *augment* the savings such that no lifestyle change would be necessary for my wife for a number of years (salary replacement), or she can choose not to work and take a vacation to go find the next Mr. Karen. (Heh. Hopefully a multi-millionaire with something powered by a radial engine if she has her way... LOL!) Same thing for me if she croaks.

Having seen that in action when my 40-something aunt was hit by cancer and dead writhin a year and her spouse and older kids could just relax and figure out what they wanted to do next, it's not such a bad thing to do for loved ones. Their kids weren't college bound and we're almost out of the house when it happened. She and her spouse worked at the same place in different departments and the check was nice for him in that he didn't really have to go back there if he didn't want to.

All circumstantial I know, but it worked out well for him and the boys. Much better than without the life insurance check.

Try west coast.
I pay $336/ yr for 500,000 locked in for 30 years

Similar here and I'm a freaking smoker. I should attempt to quit again here soon. Meanwhile I'll help ol' Art make some money. Ha.

We will scale out of ours completely and drop the policies as the nest egg grows. No red to keep them.

Without kids, it's not so much about paying for their college or anything like that, but force-funding the retirement accounts and portfolio if something stupid happens, such that long-term care that in some hell hole isn't the survivor's only option when they're really old. Salary replacement for X number of years worth of salary.

At some point the curves cross and the investments can take care of it easily. We aren't too far from that but if one of us bit it tomorrow, the policies would cover the earning gap.

Term bought young, is a really easy thing to just keep until it's not needed. Term bought old or already ill, can be a fiscal disaster and Art's right in that regard, desperate folks who didn't put compounding to good use will buy it.

Another thing it can be used for is to cover a large debt, say a business loan. Many businesses are structured such that the Principals can take the check on the life insurance if one of the partners dies, pay off the business' debt, and walk away if they desire. A different type of life insurance, but very commonly done.

I have an old term policy that isn't huge, but costs like $12/month, if that. It's on autopilot and I'd have to go look. It's so low that at current interest rates (or even assuming I could do much better in the real Ponzi scheme, the Stock market), the insurance company would lose money on it, even it I died a day before it expires. It'll never pay for itself. Their assumptions back in the 90s on what they would make on that money over time were too high. My win, their loss. If I croak before the expiration date. If I don't, they made a little money.

Actuaries are smart but even they sometimes get burned. And for $12/mo, I'll always keep that one. It pays out way better than ANY of my investments, right now, interestingly enough. But you do want to do that math and check from time to time.

In Art's defense, the company isn't dumb. Their current pricing reflects covering the under water stuff they wrote 20 years ago. They've been around a long time and around the block more than once. And if we don't cancel that silly thing at the right time it'll jump significantly with them hoping you don't notice. I wouldn't buy that policy at today's prices. Inflation at unexpectedly low rates AFTER purchase can work significantly in your favor.

It's just a tool with a specific purpose. It's neither great nor bad really. Just a choice to make along the way. The old term policy I have wouldn't make significant money added to the regular portfolio and has quite a while until it wouldn't be worth keeping.

It's a short term hedge against death. Odds are long but if it pays off young, well worth it. If you stay in it after a certain age, you're crazy.
 
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