License to learn

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
License to learn

Next phase is the pre-checkride prep. With Solo X-C’s behind me, the only thing hanging is a small portion of Hood work, which we plan to incorporate into the 3hr prep requirement. Nagging me is answering the question, “Am I REALLY prepared to be a pilot?” I’ve been run through the entire FAA approved FAR 141 syllabus.

I can confidently takeoff, aviate, navigate, communicate, safely land and look forward to doing the same with my wife and 1year old in the airplane (albeit, first time probably will have my adrenaline pumping). However, THIS is where the proverbial rubber meets the road- the first trip to grandma’s house (<1hr flight @ C-172 speeds)

In the NTSB reports I’ve read there is the occasional sub-100hr pilot that gets himself into trouble (majority are highly experienced). I once promised my wife that she would never read an NTSB report saying that I did something stupid. I intend to keep my word. Problem with that is, I do not know what I don’t know.

With my primary training is effectively done, how much has my instructor really taught me? How much wasn’t covered? How much is my responsibility now regardless of what he didn’t cover?

My personality dictates that I often take on more responsibility that what is really my own (remember, I’m an adult and responsible for my own actions). The FAA agrees that the CFI has a share of responsibility. I’ve heard (never seen anything in writing, etc) that in cases of low-time pilot error, the CFI will be called into question as part of the investigation. Since I don’t know what I don’t know, it’s impossible (for me?) to determine what legal requirements my CFI did or did not fulfill. As a student, it is my role to implicitly trust both of them (1st and 2nd).

How do I ensure that after my checkride the quality of my training is never called into question?
 
I'd say fly with another instructor to get a second opinion of your abilities, since this sounds more like a confidence issue on your part than an actual training issue.

Do you have the PPL syllabus? If so, go through it and see if you've learned everything in there.

Check out the PTS. Have you covered everything in the PTS?

Read the FARs (part 61.102-113). The FAA has dictated what it is you need to know to be a private pilot. If you find something in there that you haven't learned, fire you instructor and find another one.

In my non-scientific studies of accident reports (where the pilot was blamed), I have very rarely seen one that smacks of insufficient training. Almost all of the pilot error reports are caused by the pilot doing something contrary to the training they received.

I offer 3 tips that will very likely keep you out of an NTSB report (pay particular attention to #3):
1- Don't fly in the clouds.
2- Don't fly in crappy weather.
3- Take off with more gas than you need for the trip.
 
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Flying with a senior CFI is part of the 141 syllabus at phase check intervals.

I do intent to sit down with the PTS and read it through. I've read it in bits/pieces, I'm sure I haven't read the whole thing.

What PPL syllabus are you referring to? I'm only aware of the FAR requirements and the syllabus the FAA approved the school to use under part 141.

I agree with your NTSB assessment. They all smack of "what were they thinking".
 
Jaybird180 said:
License to learn

I can confidently takeoff, aviate, navigate, communicate, safely land and look forward to doing the same with my wife and 1year old in the airplane (albeit, first time probably will have my adrenaline pumping). However, THIS is where the proverbial rubber meets the road- the first trip to grandma’s house (<1hr flight @ C-172 speeds)
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That's about where most of us start. If it helps, work with your CFI on the first one or two cross countries. I'm sure the CFI has said or will say that you should feel free to call with questions, even after you get your ticket. Heck, I took my CFI along on my first long (1,000 nm) cross country.

Oh, and take #3 very seriously. It's one of the most common causes of incidents and its been known to bite even 20,000+ hour pilots. Always visually check fuel on board and always calculate required & remaining. You may just be doing the fuel calcs in your head but be in the habit of doing them.
 
Trust your training and set limits or personal minimums - "if conditions are beyond these limits, I won't fly...or I will only fly with an instructor I trust"

Those minimums can and will be expanded as you gain experience.

As Dirty Harry said...."Man's got to know his limitations"
 
I can mirror your sentiments exactly. I too have benefited from running through a Part 141 program and just passed my checkride today. I can say that I've definatley benefited from having to fly 141 course 'checkrides' as it not only builds confidence in my own abilities to pilot the airplane, but it gives you a taste of what the FAA ride is going to be like. I also consider my actions, and more importantly, the consequences of those actions on my loved ones whom will be flying with me now. I think my CFI put it best though, the only way to truly gain the confidence you need to be able to perform flights like this, is to go out there and FLY. Have some 'stone-set' limits setup for yourself before you ever hit the tarmac, but if you know the conditions are prime for flying, don't let any doubt in your abilities keep you from expanding and building on your experience, afterall, that's how experience is aquired!

Good luck on the checkride, see you in the skies!
 
One of the things that my wife and I ask ourselves if we're faced with making a decision is "how would this look before an NTSB board?"

It seems to me that the very fact you're here questioning this means that you have the right attitude. Don't try pushing the boundaries at first. A <1 hr flight is well within what you've done in training. Make sure you know your systems. If the part 141 school takes on the responsibility of dispatching the planes during your training, make sure that you're comfortable taking on that responsibility. If you have doubts prior to the flight, follow the earlier advice and go over it with a CFI. As you say in the thread title, it truly is a license to learn, so you will be pushing the boundaries over time. Just do that one boundary at a time where you have plenty of alternatives and where you can consciously mitigate the risks.
 
If you want - send me a PM, we'll set up a call and I'll run you through a mock Oral exam. We can also get into some discussions and questions about your skills and attitudes related to aeronautical decision making and risk management. The fact that you're asking these questions shows you have the right attitude. If anything, you might just need a little reassurance that you truly are "where you need to be" at this point.
 
Jaybird180: Most problems are a result of bad judgment on the part of the pilot, new or experienced. Tell your wife when you go to grandma's that there is always the possibility you may have to drive back home. Don't put yourself into a situation where you will pressured to fly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Don't laugh - It may seem like common sense, but you would be suprised at how many pilots crash perfectly good airplanes because they ran them out of gas.
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Sorry, but I have no sympathy for running out of gas. The only possible exception is developing a fuel leak that couldn't be detected on the ground.

I once read about a guy that searched for the "perfect" Mooney. Upon purchase, the dealer hired a ferry pilot. The plane ran out of gas on the ferry flight. The report said the pilot made an off airport landing 5 miles from the destination. At Mooney speeds, that's likely during the cruise-decent. The ferry pilot had no injuries...on that day (LOL)
 
Jaybird180 said:
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for running out of gas. The only possible exception is developing a fuel leak that couldn't be detected on the ground.

I once read about a guy that searched for the "perfect" Mooney. Upon purchase, the dealer hired a ferry pilot. The plane ran out of gas on the ferry flight. The report said the pilot made an off airport landing 5 miles from the destination. At Mooney speeds, that's likely during the cruise-decent. The ferry pilot had no injuries...on that day (LOL)
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Jaybird, Don't get the idea that "it can't happen to me". You could take off, thinking you have plenty of fuel, and accidentally made a fuel miscalculation, or you didn't lean properly (the "book" numbers are based on flight test from very experienced test pilots), or wasted time because you got lost.

You make a fuel calculation based on a 8 gal/hour burn rate, and you forget to lean properly, and you actually burn 12 gal/hour fuel rate, then you run out of fuel earlier than expected.

If you always take off with full tanks, and only fly a couple hours, you're probably OK, but try to make a long distance flight, and "push" it a little too far, next thing you know, you're stuck with a forced landing.

This is especially true if you rent. The planes I fly are rented out wet, so I don't pay fuel directly. This means, when I fly, the tanks might not always be full when I take off, and I know I'm staying local, so I should be fine.

Also, If I remember correctly, the fuel guages only have to be accurate at "E". The only need to be accurate when the tanks are empty i THINK, so you could be flying along, not paying attention to what you calculated, and just check the fuel guage, and could potentially be fooled into thinking you have more fuel than you actually have.


Just saying....
 
ajstoner21 said:
Don't get the idea that "it can't happen to me".
Just saying....
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That's usually exactly who it does happen to. :yes:

Everytime I get in the IAR I expect it to try to kill me.

So far I've outsmarted it...that, or the hole in the luck bucket has been pretty small up to now. :fcross:
 
Nope. I visually check fuel EVERY TIME. Sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me for the guy who doesn't check.

Yes, mistakes happen. That's why we don't push the limits. Daytime VFR you should BE ON THE GROUND when you have 30 mins fuel remaining. How do you do this, plan to be on the ground EARLIER.

My personal method is: C-172 has 4hrs endurance (roughly). When I get 3hrs hobbs, I'm on the ground. PERIOD. End of discussion. Only way to screw that up is a fuel leak.

It's the guy who doesn't take personal responsibility that it happens to.
 
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The point from earlier posts is that things can happen to throw you off. Say you have to divert around a thunderstorm. Or you can't find the airport you were planning to land at. Or something else comes up. Once I had to fly around some ominous looking clouds, and that took 30 minutes, so I landed with roughly 30 minutes of fuel instead of an hour that I like. These things happen.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Nope. I visually check fuel EVERY TIME. Sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me for the guy who doesn't check.

Yes, mistakes happen. That's why we don't push the limits. Daytime VFR you should BE ON THE GROUND when you have 30 mins fuel remaining. How do you do this, plan to be on the ground EARLIER.

My personal method is: C-172 has 4hrs endurance (roughly). When I get 3hrs hobbs, I'm on the ground. PERIOD. End of discussion. Only way to screw that up is a fuel leak. It's the guy who doesn't take personal responsibility that it happens to.
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Besides....it's hard to outfly the bladder! :wink2:

I've done 4 hour legs and had more than an hour of fuel remaining in the tanks. I didn't like looking in to verify and not see much sloshing around so I try to keep it to 3 hours and a nature stop. Make a habit out of working your fuel calcs then topping off to check your math and fuel burn.
 
bluee said:
The point from earlier posts is that things can happen to throw you off. Say you have to divert around a thunderstorm. Or you can't find the airport you were planning to land at. Or something else comes up. Once I had to fly around some ominous looking clouds, and that took 30 minutes, so I landed with roughly 30 minutes of fuel instead of an hour that I like. These things happen.
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And as long as you KNEW you were gonna land with 30 minutes, that's an acceptable risk decision on your part.

What Jaybird appears to be saying (and I agree with) is that there's no excuse short of hijacking or mechanical malfunction for you to be in the air with no gas in anything other than a glider.

My flight school has a policy that flights need to be planned with a one hour reserve, AND that renters/CFIs must land early if they won't make their destination with an hour of fuel on board. With the data logging now available on G1000 airplanes, it will be possible to do FOQA on the fleet and identify violations.

Now, I do understand that there are places out west where airports are few and far between, but I've managed to fly out there in an OMF symphony which only held maybe 3:00 full, and it just meant that I was landing every 90 minutes or so. The only time I had less than one hour of fuel in the tanks was when I landed with 1:05 left and there was no fuel, so I had to go elsewhere and had 0:40 when I got to a fuel pump.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for running out of gas. The only possible exception is developing a fuel leak that couldn't be detected on the ground.
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I didn't say you should be sympathetic - I pointed that out because even though it is the easiest problem in aviation to avoid (short of not taking off in the first place), there are still a whole lot of people who do it. If you start thinking 'that will never happen to me' that's about the time that that you may become complacent enough to actually join their ranks. Don't get cocky.
 
TMetzinger said:
And as long as you KNEW you were gonna land with 30 minutes, that's an acceptable risk decision on your part.

What Jaybird appears to be saying (and I agree with) is that there's no excuse short of hijacking or mechanical malfunction for you to be in the air with no gas in anything other than a glider.

My flight school has a policy that flights need to be planned with a one hour reserve, AND that renters/CFIs must land early if they won't make their destination with an hour of fuel on board. With the data logging now available on G1000 airplanes, it will be possible to do FOQA on the fleet and identify violations.

Now, I do understand that there are places out west where airports are few and far between, but I've managed to fly out there in an OMF symphony which only held maybe 3:00 full, and it just meant that I was landing every 90 minutes or so. The only time I had less than one hour of fuel in the tanks was when I landed with 1:05 left and there was no fuel, so I had to go elsewhere and had 0:40 when I got to a fuel pump.
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I knew how much fuel I had, and I also flew over several airports I could have landed at, but I knew I had enough to return to my home airport. And I measured when I landed because I wanted to know how close I was to my mental calculation.
 
You're right that you don't know what you don't know.

Basically, as a relatively new pilot, you should start off with what you know. Stay local or on relatively short trips (within 150 nm of your home base, for example), and have conservative personal minimums for weather. As you fly more, you'll get more comfortable, learn more, and expand your boundaries slowly. That's the best way to not end up in an NTSB report.

If you're uncertain about weather, the answer is probably stay on the ground. Or, if you can find one, bring a CFI with you. If the CFI says "No way, I'm not flying in that" then the answer even more likely stay on the ground.

As to whether your training will be called into question: If you wreck a plane within the first 100 hours of your flight experience, chances are it will be. That's part of why your instructor and the DE are motivated to not just sign you off unless they're convinced that you won't wreck a plane. Irrespective of that, as an instructor I don't think I'd be able to live with myself if I knew that I signed someone off who wasn't capable, and that person then died in a crash.
 
No no no... The NTSB has it ALL wrong....

1. Never stop flying the airplane

2. Don't hit anything

3. Always have a plan. If the plan doesn't work, get a new plan.

If that wont keep you alive, I don't know what will...
 
Reminds me of:

"Airspeed, Altitude and Brains. Always need at least two of them"
 
somorris said:
Jaybird180: Most problems are a result of bad judgment on the part of the pilot, new or experienced. Tell your wife when you go to grandma's that there is always the possibility you may have to drive back home. Don't put yourself into a situation where you will pressured to fly.
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http://flash.aopa.org/asf/flightrisk/

One has to create an account to access this, but it is no charge...
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
3. Always have a plan. If the plan doesn't work, get a new plan.

If that wont keep you alive, I don't know what will...
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Having a plan doesn't help when it's a bad plan. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Having a plan doesn't help when it's a bad plan. ;)
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Ha, Reminds me of something I read at work....

"A bad plan with a great presentation is doomed eventually, A great plan with a bad presentation, is doomed from the start"

Not so sure that applies to aviation though.
 
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