Let the buyer beware...

RotaryWingBob

RotaryWingBob

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iHover
There is an amusing, but also scary, auction on ebay. The aircraft is a 1993 Robinson R22 Beta. It has 2235 TT on it.

So what's the big deal?

Robinson helicopters require an overhaul at 12 years or 2200 hours, whichever comes first. This ship is over 12 years and has over 2200 TT.

But if you look at the ebay listing and the responses to questions to the seller (you'll need to click on "more" to get his full response), you'll see an amazing attempt to spin the overhaul requirements.

If the link below doesn't work, just get on to ebay and do a search on "robinson r22".


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...009QQitemZ190049816736QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


The price is interesting too, 85K. My recollection is that an R22 core is worth about 60K!

Oh yeah. If you decide to buy it, don't look to me to test fly it :no:
 
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You have to be a registered user to view the detailed questions and answers.

Q: How can this ship have 2000+ hours remaining if it has not been overhauled. Are you flying it past the 2200 TBO dictated by robinson? Nov-10-06
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A: Let me see if I can explain. There is a big difference in operating a aircraft as a private owner,pleasure riding,sight seeing, maybe taking your friends for a ride. If your intention are to haul passenger, or freight or flight training, ect: commercial operation, the rules are much more strict. This would be a relatively inexpensive unit to operate as a private aircraft. At 2200 hours a private R22 must have the main rotorblades replaced. Mandatory!! The main rotorblades have indeed been replaced with new -4(dash four rotorblades, the utmost quality ones) as required. Secondly, the tailrotor gearbox must be replaced at 2200 hours also. Mandatory. The tailrotor gearbox has indeed been replaced with a new gearbox. The tailrotor blades are not required to be replaced until 5525 hours. The manufacturer strongly suggest that the engine be rebuilt at 2200 hours but, a privately operated engine typically is allowed to operate an additional 10% beyond that if there is no loss of compression, oil usage or or any weakness that could indicate a dangerous or safety situation. On the commercial operation, get ready to spend some serious bucks if you plan to operate any of the above for money flying. Commercially, all the thing required of a private ship must be done plus some other rather pricey upgrades. Number one, the engine MUST be overhauled. The main transmission MUST be sent back to the factory for rebuild. 12 year inspections is another of the pricey items. Commercially, be prepared to spend $35000 plus to make this ship legally airworthy. Even operating this ship privately, be prepared to spend a minimum of $18000 to have the engine rebuilt and the main rotor spindle replaced(due at 2415 hours) to finalize making this ship good until 4400 hours. At 4400 hours, the price gets big. Now for the good news! You have about 130 hours that the ship can operate(considering the engine holds up)relatively cheap. 130 hours is a lot of flying!!! Then spend $18000. BINGO!
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Q: was this unit overhauled at factory or in the field? If in field was it done by robinson servicec center? Nov-10-06
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A: This ship has not been overhauled.The main rotor blades were replaced with new -4 (dash four) blades, a new tailrotor gearbox was installed and the main transmission was opened up, inspected and reinstalled. New seals were put in of course. These upgrades were done by a Robinson dealer. The engine is running great but has not been overhauled. You can see the white tailpipe in the pictures. It is a nice little ship for personal use. Paul.
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It's a good-looking ship. I just wish it was airworthy. I like the painted fan scroll.

There's also a 1983 R22 on ebay that says a lot of funny things:
1. "factory overhaul", yet it still has the old style instrument panel.
2. flown only 5 hours since the overhaul in 1997. 5 hours in 9 years???

I called the guy and said it didn't appear to be a factory overhaul. He said it was a field overhaul done to factory specs. (that's a huge difference, even if true) I asked for the name of the shop that overhauled it and was told it was a shop up in Oregon. He lives in Kansas, said the ship was overhauled in Oregon, but it's located in Georgia. ??? I called the service center in Oregon to verify the overhaul. The guy said it didn't ring a bell (he's pretty sure he would have remembered it) but he'd check into it. He called me back at the end of the day, said he'd checked their records and it's never been to their shop.

I think you're right. The moral of the story is to do your homework.
 
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So Bob... are you looking at R22s on eBay for a reason? Is the wife interested in her own machine? ;)
 
wbarnhill said:
So Bob... are you looking at R22s on eBay for a reason? Is the wife interested in her own machine? ;)
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Nah. She'd want a 44 for sure (besides, we still own the R22 Beta II!).

There's a R22/44 Yahoo group and somebody posted the ebay listing to it.

What's interesting (and scary) is that the ship is definitly not airworthy, but the guy who is selling it says he may be flying it some...
 
RotaryWingBob said:
What's interesting (and scary) is that the ship is definitly not airworthy, but the guy who is selling it says he may be flying it some...
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So what Bob. No worries! Its a helicopter, what could go wrong???


:dunno:
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Nah. She'd want a 44 for sure (besides, we still own the R22 Beta II!).

There's a R22/44 Yahoo group and somebody posted the ebay listing to it.

What's interesting (and scary) is that the ship is definitly not airworthy, but the guy who is selling it says he may be flying it some...
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Is that not a matter of Part 91 vs. Part 129 or Part 135 like with a fixed wing? I think that's what he's saying.

Recommeded engine TBO is not mandatory for Part 91. Is the airframe TBO mandatory?
 
larrysb said:
Those limits are not recommendations, they are airworthiness limitations and no one can overfly them legally.
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Gotcha. Thanks, Larry.
 
larrysb said:
Life-limited parts apply to all operators, part 91 or not.
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That is precisely the problem here.

The 2200 (not a typo!) hour/12 year OH takes the entire ship apart down to the airframe. It then is rebuilt right next to the brand new ships, except that some parts which haven't reached their life limits (and won't for the next 2200 hours) and which have been inspected are reused.
 
Yeah, and gotta love the placard 'gyros may be unreliable during mating season'

Maybe I could put that next to my trunk monkey button and see how long it takes for someone to notice......
 
Laurie said:
http://www.jollygreen.org/Humor/reasoner.htm

Sure wish I had a can opener on my collective.....
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Thanks for that piece. Harry Reasoner remained a favorite news person for many years. And I was so glad to see that he used the phrase, "different from" twice in his dispatch. And he was correct. I get so tired of reading/hearing comments in which the writer/speaker notes, "different than," which is an improper use.
End of rant.

HR
 
Let me see if I can explain. Blah blah blah blah blah, and you get the paint job for next to nothing. I'm going to end up paying YOU to win this auction. Really. You can't lose. Trust me.
 
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