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TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Midlothian, TX
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3Green
I just got home from some actual IMC in my boss' boss' (Michael) Arrow, N75386. He suggested we leave work early and go fly. Went to Denton, pulled his plane out of the hangar, went around the pattern a few times, then picked up our IFR clearance from DTO to DTO. (departure and destination airport the same). He had filed DTO-AROSE-GLE-DTO. They gave us the TEX9 departure (http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0703/05866TEXOMA.PDF), BLECO transition, direct DTO, after departure turn right heading 190, climb and maintain 2100, expect 3000 after 10. The comments section of our flight plan mentioned we wanted multiple approaches, with the filed route to be AROSE KGLE (AROSE is one of the IAF's for the GPS 17 approach into Gainesville). http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0703/06113R17.PDF

After departure, with reported ceiling of 2,200 OVC (Denton is 640 feet AGL, so we expected IMC by 2900 or so), we climbed on heading 190 to 2100, with Regional telling us to turn right heading 360 upon reaching 2100, and then climbed us up to 3000. At 3000 we were IMC out the front window, but could see straight down. Visibility laterally was maybe 3 miles. Then, upon being switched to Ft. Worth Center on 124.75, we were given higher, without a specific request: "climb and maintain 4000". This put us in solid IMC, which is what Michael had wanted.

We were soon given direct AROSE, descended to 3000, and were cleared for the approach. For the first time EVER for me, got "after the approach, fly the PUBLISHED MISS and come back to me this frequency." Broke out inside of the FAF, and descended down to MDA, finally seeing the airport about 3 miles out. Flew the missed, which is straight ahead to 2400', direct CRUSS and hold. We re-connected with Ft Worth Center on our climb to CRUSS, and were cleared via heading 150 and a climb to 4000 (solid IMC again) to intercept the Localizer 17 for the ILS 17 approach into Denton. http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0703/05866IL17.PDF

Flew the ILS into Denton, breaking out about 2500', but not seeing the airport (visibility) til about a 3 mile final. We landed, taxiied back, then he let me fly his plane around the pattern 4 times. It's got retractable gear, controllable pitch prop, etc., so it was like being back in the Club (with the Mooneys, etc.). He had offered to switch seats so I was in the left, but I just stayed in the right and did just fine from there. I wanted him in the left since it was his plane! :)

2.0 hours total, 1.4 of that in total IMC. Oh, and he hand flew it all! :)

OK, so here's a question so that this can become a thread:

I was along to be his safety pilot. Due to the IMC, he didn't need foggles. Can I log any time other than the time I was on the controls doing touch and gos?
 
Troy Whistman said:
OK, so here's a question so that this can become a thread:

I was along to be his safety pilot. Due to the IMC, he didn't need foggles. Can I log any time other than the time I was on the controls doing touch and gos?
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You can log whatever you want, but I believe that there is nothing that could be logged and used for the purpose of currency or a rating. Since you were IMC and the pilot properly rated you were just a pax, albeit a trained pax.

Without looking at the regs that is my gut feeling. I'll look up stuff after this and probably find the answer right after someone else posts it form memory.
 
No Troy, you can't log anything, unless he was under the foggles while out of IMC. You aren't a required crewmember in IMC.
61.51
 
EdFred said:
No Troy, you can't log anything, unless he was under the foggles while out of IMC. You aren't a required crewmember in IMC.
61.51
Click to expand...

I second that. Can't log it if you weren't required.
 
Troy Whistman said:
That's what I figured. I can, however, log the time I was handling the controls, of course, for the four trips around the pattern when we got back.

Here's our flight: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N75386
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If the other pilot were willing, you could log PIC while he was wearing foggles even if the flight was in IMC. Personally, I'd be reluctant to don the mask in IMC for comfort reasons alone.
 
lancefisher said:
If the other pilot were willing, you could log PIC while he was wearing foggles even if the flight was in IMC. Personally, I'd be reluctant to don the mask in IMC for comfort reasons alone.
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But, is the safety pilot a required crewmember if the pilot flying is current and in IMC? I'd think not.
 
KennyFlys said:
But, is the safety pilot a required crewmember if the pilot flying is current and in IMC? I'd think not.
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The safety pilot is required anytime the PF is wearing a view limiting device, in or out of clouds. Wearing foggles on an IFR flight plan in IMC is not a common practice I grant you, but legal as long as there is a qualified safety pilot along and whoever is PIC is instrument current.
 
lancefisher said:
The safety pilot is required anytime the PF is wearing a view limiting device, in or out of clouds. Wearing foggles on an IFR flight plan in IMC is not a common practice I grant you, but legal as long as there is a qualified safety pilot along and whoever is PIC is instrument current.
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It seems valid but sort of "loopholish."
 
lancefisher said:
If the other pilot were willing, you could log PIC while he was wearing foggles even if the flight was in IMC. Personally, I'd be reluctant to don the mask in IMC for comfort reasons alone.
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You're right, but he was not wearing foggles... he was already current, I was along more for his comfort factor of having another pilot on board.
 
Troy, wow! Glad you got such a great opportunity! Hope it comes around to you more times. Lisa
 
Since the pilot flying was not wearing a vision-restricting device, TW can log only his HOTAS ("hands on stick and throttle") time. The rest of the time, only one pilot was required, so you couldn't log it even if you were acting as PIC.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since the pilot flying was not wearing a vision-restricting device, TW can log only his HOTAS ("hands on stick and throttle") time. The rest of the time, only one pilot was required, so you couldn't log it even if you were acting as PIC.
Click to expand...

HOTAS(S) time? I'm gonna remember that one!
 
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