Learning the Luscombe (and an introduction)

[alfadog]

Howdy Y'all

Bit of an introduction. I am a fella that wanted to be a commercial pilot back in the early 1970's. I attended Palm Beach Junior College in the aeronautics program and got my PPL at Tilfords (KPBI) in 1976. Started on my commercial work and then, being young and dumb and generally addled, I bought into the line of a discouraged CFI about how there was no career for he and me and quit with 75 hours. Stopped flying in 1976, also. Went on with my life.

Fast forward to February 2010 and now living in Miami. Numerous times since 1976 I had thought about flying again but never made it happen. Sitting at work, I decided long enough was long enough. I still had a gift certificate from a local FBO that my ex had given me about 10 years prior. Called them and they said they would honor it (good move as I spent a lot more money there in the next months). I found an AME that would do my medical on short notice, scheduled a lesson for that weekend, and I was off.

In the two years since, I have flown close to 300 hours, did most of my instrument work (just need the written and the checkride), got a complex endorsement, bought an Arrow II with a friend, and, my latest, got my tailwheel endorsement and some 35 hours so far in a friend's 1946 Luscombe Silvaire 8A.

The reason I so wanted to fly the Luscombe is that I knew I was lacking in basic stick and rudder skills. I went up with a number of instructors and asked them to help me with that area. They were like, "you are OK". I did not want to be "OK", I wanted to be competent, even proficient. Perhaps some of them did not know any better but two were high-time pilots that I sought out for their experience.

That changed when I got in the Luscombe with the instructor that my friend recommended. I was not "OK", I had a lot to work on and he was able to tell me exactly what. It was not "fly the airplane", it was, for example, "you let your crosswind correction drop out once the wheels touch, a common error with tricycle-gear pilots. You need more, not less, correction as the airplane slows." Every piece of advice was specific and spot-on.

Anyway, that is enough of my story for now. I wanted to share some YouTube videos I made of flying the Luscombe. I very much consider myself a student pilot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1na8y7dxzQA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV_cX0LA9wM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPCaTFAMC84

 

[SCCutler]

Geez, I think tere's ome fun stuff there! Internet connection here is too weak to allow YouTubing, so I'll have to wit until I am back in Dallas.

Congratulations on returning to flying, and on all you are accomplishing. Tell us more!

And, a ten year old gift cert fom a flight school- what are the odds of the flight school even *being* there?

 

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks for the YouTube's! I enjoyed them.

Does that plane have a steel tailwheel? It sounded like it.

 

[RoscoeT]

Fun videos and sweet plane. Welcome to POA. You had a fun one there at 15:12! That's a good lesson to the tailwheel newbies out there...add power and go around! You also had another fun swerve to the left a little later. Both times these swerves happened immediately when the tailwheel touched down after a wheel landing. During one of those, it looked like the swerve may have started just an instant before the tailwheel touched, as it was dropping.

From the video, it looks like you are holding the tail up for a long time (getting slow) and letting it drop on its own somewhat abruptly. Looks like your directional control issues are happening here. I think that when the tailwheel comes down that hard, that it wants to bounce slightly, and therefore is not getting a good grip on the ground as soon as it touches. This combined with the fact that you might not be getting the stick fully aft as soon as the tailwheel touches either is a recipe for directional control issues when you're wheel landing in a decent x-wind.

During those wheel landings, I would recommend that you more gently fly the tail down at a slightly higher speed rather than letting the tail run out of lift (and rudder authority) before it drops with a thud on its own. Be in control...deliberately and smoothly "land" the tailwheel. Flying the tail down faster allows you to retain more rudder authority during the letdown, and also allows you to set the tailwheel down more smoothly, which will be a more efficient transition to positive tailwheel steering than letting the tail drop hard. Also, the instant the tailwheel touches, you should have the stick in your gut. But don't get trigger happy and accidentally slam it down with back stick.

Regarding when to fly the tail down, that's something you do by feel. You don't want to be so fast that you're at risk of flying off the ground again, but you don't want to be so slow that you have almost no rudder authority left due to the low airspeed and low airflow over the rudder.

It looks like you're getting good practice in, and playing with the edges of the airplane's abilities, as well as your own...and are able to keep from bending anything. That's a good thing. Keep it up.

 

[alfadog]

Thanks for the YouTube's! I enjoyed them.

Does that plane have a steel tailwheel? It sounded like it.

Thanks

Solid rubber with a bad bearing. We greased it and tightened it up a bit after but it is still a bit noisy. I will post some more recent practice landings after I fix my fast computer. I made these on a pretty decent laptop with Windows LIVE Movie Maker and have vowed not to do that any more

 

[RoscoeT]

Solid rubber with a bad bearing. We greased it and tightened it up a bit after but it is still a bit noisy.

Not uncommon for bearings to go bad in solid Maule tailwheels, since you can't get the bearings out to pack them with grease. Best you can do is try to press in from the side, but it's not as effective as packing bearings that you can actually take out.

 

[alfadog]

Fun videos and sweet plane. Welcome to POA. You had a fun one there at 15:12! That's a good lesson to the tailwheel newbies out there...add power and go around! You also had another fun swerve to the left a little later. Both times these swerves happened immediately when the tailwheel touched down after a wheel landing. During one of those, it looked like the swerve may have started just an instant before the tailwheel touched, as it was dropping.

From the video, it looks like you are holding the tail up for a long time (getting slow) and letting it drop on its own somewhat abruptly. Looks like your directional control issues are happening here. I think that when the tailwheel comes down that hard, that it wants to bounce slightly, and therefore is not getting a good grip on the ground as soon as it touches. This combined with the fact that you might not be getting the stick fully aft as soon as the tailwheel touches either is a recipe for directional control issues when you're wheel landing in a decent x-wind.

During those wheel landings, I would recommend that you more gently fly the tail down at a slightly higher speed rather than letting the tail run out of lift (and rudder authority) before it drops with a thud on its own. Be in control...deliberately and smoothly "land" the tailwheel. Flying the tail down faster allows you to retain more rudder authority during the letdown, and also allows you to set the tailwheel down more smoothly, which will be a more efficient transition to positive tailwheel steering than letting the tail drop hard. Also, the instant the tailwheel touches, you should have the stick in your gut. But don't get trigger happy and accidentally slam it down with back stick.

Regarding when to fly the tail down, that's something you do by feel. You don't want to be so fast that you're at risk of flying off the ground again, but you don't want to be so slow that you have almost no rudder authority left due to the low airspeed and low airflow over the rudder.

It looks like you're getting good practice in, and playing with the edges of the airplane's abilities, as well as your own...and are able to keep from bending anything. That's a good thing. Keep it up.

Thanks for the critique - always welcome. That is some good advice. It was pretty breezy out there. One of the members in a Luscombe group thought I was pretty much at the xwind limit for that airplane. Another commented that I must have had a VERY good instructor. Agree with the second, not so sure about the first. Took it out this week for some practice in more realistic wind, 10k and within 20d of the runway and man, was that sweet.

That first bad one (11:00) is interesting because it swung away from the wind, not what you would expect. I was trying to get back on centerline and coming down a bit fast and hit the right main while moving left to right. The momentum of the CG behind the mains swung the airplane to the left, away from the wind. On that second bad one (15:12), I think my foot came off the left rudder when the tail hit.

I am now making my wheel landings at 10 mph more than my 3-pointers and that is smoothing things out a lot.

 

[AdamZ]

John, welcome to POA and thanks for posting the videos. Keep posting!

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Thanks for the critique - always welcome. That is some good advice. It was pretty breezy out there. One of the members in a Luscombe group thought I was pretty much at the xwind limit for that airplane. Another commented that I must have had a VERY good instructor. Agree with the second, not so sure about the first. Took it out this week for some practice in more realistic wind, 10k and within 20d of the runway and man, was that sweet.

That first bad one (11:00) is interesting because it swung away from the wind, not what you would expect. I was trying to get back on centerline and coming down a bit fast and hit the right main while moving left to right. The momentum of the CG behind the mains swung the airplane to the left, away from the wind. On that second bad one (15:12), I think my foot came off the left rudder when the tail hit.

I am now making my wheel landings at 10 mph more than my 3-pointers and that is smoothing things out a lot.

The rule for posting video's of landings is to only post the good ones. That's why you only see one of mine on line.

 

[alfadog]

The rule for posting video's of landings is to only post the good ones. That's why you only see one of mine on line.

Ah, my bad

I have some better ones from a few days ago but they have to wait until I repair my fast computer.

 

[brcase]

I will grant you that it was windy, Didn't look to bad to me though.
and I have only watched your 1st 6 landings or so..(so far)

My critique is really work on staying on the center line from touch down to take off.
It seemed to me that you have a tendency to touch down to the left of the C/L and then again a tendency to go left on your take off.

Your 1st landing you seemed to rush the Go, of your touch and go, if you have enough runway let it slow down until you are at a fast taxi speed or maybe even just a normal taxi speed. I think you will find most ground loops happen near the end of the landing, not the beginning. You need to practice getting it slow on the ground.

I just watch the go around I liked it, I liked how you practiced your crosswind technique after deciding to go around. I also just noticed that you did post the winds. That probably is about what I would consider max for practicing x-wind landings

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[dmccormack]

Touch and gos in a TW?

Why?

 

[RoscoeT]

Touch and gos in a TW?

Why?

 

[dmccormack]

On the typical 5,000' paved runway you can land, stop, takeoff, and land again at least twice.

 

[dell30rb]

cool

I've had exactly two flights in a cub and its definitely a challenge (and a lot of fun)

 

[FlySince9]

My critique is really work on staying on the center line from touch down to take off.
It seemed to me that you have a tendency to touch down to the left of the C/L and then again a tendency to go left on your take off.

I'm the last one to criticize someone's landings, but now that its been brought up, that is the main thing I noticed. I found myself leaning to the right while I was watching the videos.

I was quite impressed with your methodical, safety concious, and seemingly well practiced hand-starting procedure.

I'm kinda new here too, but welcome to POA. And thanx for posting the videos. They were fun to watch.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Given the cross wind he was dealing with, and his low time in a TW airplane, I think he did pretty good. That said, I too was trying to get the plane on the center stripe while watching the video. Both my instructors were big on this.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Given the cross wind he was dealing with, and his low time in a TW airplane, I think he did pretty good. That said, I too was trying to get the plane on the center stripe while watching the video. Both my instructors were big on this.

I believe in using the whole runway and distributing the wear - it's a public service.

 

[alfadog]

Given the cross wind he was dealing with, and his low time in a TW airplane, I think he did pretty good. That said, I too was trying to get the plane on the center stripe while watching the video. Both my instructors were big on this.

Thank you

And absolutely, I need to get better at staying on centerline. I have gotten better since then and I have more work to do. I am not there yet by a long shot. I did the t&g's to work on the area that I needed work on. Actually my slow speed and ground handling is pretty good. I used to be a heavy equipment operator before I made the mistake of thinking I would be better off as a civil engineer and am very good at dealing with moving equipment and differential brakes. Once I felt that I had it firmly on the ground, starting to slow, and under control, I put the power and did it again. That said, my last session in easier winds was devoted to pushing the envelope a bit with ground handling and learning to use the heel brakes.

I do appreciate all critiques and take them to heart. I appreciate y'all taking the time to watch the video(s) and comment. Thanks.

 

[N1347B]

Touch and gos in a TW?

Why?

Because I can. I've done thousands of them...in a Luscombe.

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

 

[N1347B]

Enjoyed your videos on the Luscombe List. The Old Man and I have been on it since the mid 90s.

I found no issues with your landings. The Luscombe is not a Cub or a Champ. It handles somewhat differently.

If you were landing that well in a Luscombe in that crosswind, you are doing well and don't need advice from an Internet forum.

As to landing on one side of the runway...my husband has landed his 8A on the left side for 35 years. I prefer the middle in my 8E.

I prefer the three point as my airplane prefers it. My husband's 8A likes to wheel land. We do not approach either at faster speeds. My three points and wheel landings are approached at the same speeds. Henry does the same.

Landing a Luscombe is easy. It's the roll out where the fun starts.

I hope to continue to read that viewers of your landings are leaning to one side as that confirms you have the proper crosswind correction.

Deborah Mcfarland



1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

 

[N1347B]

Thanks for the YouTube's! I enjoyed them.

Does that plane have a steel tailwheel? It sounded like it.

Our solid tailwheels are loud.

Deb

 

[FlySince9]

I believe in using the whole runway and distributing the wear - it's a public service.

If its a deliberate, conscious effort, maybe... (I don't believe that)) But if that were a valid point and if you're distributing the wear to the upwind side of center, I might agree. But if you're left or right of center because the wind put you there, that's a different story.

 

[alfadog]

Enjoyed your videos on the Luscombe List. The Old Man and I have been on it since the mid 90s.

I found no issues with your landings. The Luscombe is not a Cub or a Champ. It handles somewhat differently.

If you were landing that well in a Luscombe in that crosswind, you are doing well and don't need advice from an Internet forum.

As to landing on one side of the runway...my husband has landed his 8A on the left side for 35 years. I prefer the middle in my 8E.

I prefer the three point as my airplane prefers it. My husband's 8A likes to wheel land. We do not approach either at faster speeds. My three points and wheel landings are approached at the same speeds. Henry does the same.

Landing a Luscombe is easy. It's the roll out where the fun starts.

I hope to continue to read that viewers of your landings are leaning to one side as that confirms you have the proper crosswind correction.

Deborah Mcfarland



1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

Thanks.

I have no other tailwheel experience so nothing to compare the 8A do. It is a blast, though, and I am enjoying the hell out of it!

Worked on my ground handling this week and starting to ease into using the brakes on roll-out for a short-field landing. Did a couple on the grass at X51 and they are starting to look pretty good. I will break one or two out of the vid and post it. It is too slow to make any more nice videos until I fix my desktop but just a quick trim is no problem.

Sure, I don't mind the critiques and they are welcome from all comers but it is more about sharing. When I started up again two years ago there were not a lot of vids on YouTube that had any substance to them so I am trying to do my little bit.

I want to be proficient at both 3-point and wheel landings but wheel landings on grass tickle me

 

[dmccormack]

Because I can. I've done thousands of them...in a Luscombe.

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

I don't see a reason to during training.



(I'm no longer a touch and go fan)

 

[yakdriver]

I land slightly to the right of the CL as I can see it out the corner of my eye and it makes keeping things straight much easier. A lot of the airplanes I fly have no visibility over the nose so this just gives another visual clue. I also three point in x winds. I want the plane all done flying and the tailwheel on the ground on touchdown. Luscombes are cool airplanes. I flew one a few hours years ago and then the owner ground looped it and tore it up. Looks like you have a good handle on it so keep it up. Don

 

[N1347B]

Thanks.

I have no other tailwheel experience so nothing to compare the 8A do. It is a blast, though, and I am enjoying the hell out of it!

Worked on my ground handling this week and starting to ease into using the brakes on roll-out for a short-field landing. Did a couple on the grass at X51 and they are starting to look pretty good. I will break one or two out of the vid and post it. It is too slow to make any more nice videos until I fix my desktop but just a quick trim is no problem.

Sure, I don't mind the critiques and they are welcome from all comers but it is more about sharing. When I started up again two years ago there were not a lot of vids on YouTube that had any substance to them so I am trying to do my little bit.

I want to be proficient at both 3-point and wheel landings but wheel landings on grass tickle me

Please be very cautious using brakes in the Luscombe on the landing roll. I have seen more Luscombes flipped than I have ground looped. A gear is easier to replace than trying to get the dihedral back into the wings. I never use them on the landing roll which makes my IA husband happy since brake parts or either rare or are worth their weight in gold.

I have no problem with internet critiques, but just take them with a grain of salt. Again, our airplanes handle a little differently. They are faster than most two-seat vintage airplanes and our approaches are typically faster. Another interesting note is that Henry's 8A stalls at 39 mph while my 8E stalls at 48 mph (both are the book values for those models).

Enjoy perfecting your landings . They are the best part of flying a Luscombe. However, you will learn over time that particular airplanes will do one better than the other. I three point in mine on all surfaces. Henry wheel lands his on all surfaces. I wheel land his when I fly it. He three points mine when he flies it. I also like a three point take off unless I'm loaded. My tailwheel doesn't come up anyway until the airplane is ready to fly. The tailwheel on Henry lighter A model jumps off the ground as soon as power is added.

The airplane you are flying will let you know if you are paying attention. I have found that most 8A owners prefer the wheel landing.

The grass is a wonderful, forgiving surface. All that excess energy is absorbed and the landing roll is much shorter. Even makes me look good
;-).

Of course, you should know that your time in the Luscombe will ruin you for other airplanes. They are such sweet simple machines. Polished models with square tails, silflex gears and metal wings are best! ;-).

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

 

[MBDiagMan]

Please be very cautious using brakes in the Luscombe on the landing roll. I have seen more Luscombes flipped than I have ground looped. A gear is easier to replace than trying to get the dihedral back into the wings. I never use them on the landing roll which makes my IA husband happy since brake parts or either rare or are worth their weight in gold.

I have no problem with internet critiques, but just take them with a grain of salt. Again, our airplanes handle a little differently. They are faster than most two-seat vintage airplanes and our approaches are typically faster. Another interesting note is that Henry's 8A stalls at 39 mph while my 8E stalls at 48 mph (both are the book values for those models).

Enjoy perfecting your landings . They are the best part of flying a Luscombe. However, you will learn over time that particular airplanes will do one better than the other. I three point in mine on all surfaces. Henry wheel lands his on all surfaces. I wheel land his when I fly it. He three points mine when he flies it. I also like a three point take off unless I'm loaded. My tailwheel doesn't come up anyway until the airplane is ready to fly. The tailwheel on Henry lighter A model jumps off the ground as soon as power is added.

The airplane you are flying will let you know if you are paying attention. I have found that most 8A owners prefer the wheel landing.

The grass is a wonderful, forgiving surface. All that excess energy is absorbed and the landing roll is much shorter. Even makes me look good
;-).

Of course, you should know that your time in the Luscombe will ruin you for other airplanes. They are such sweet simple machines. Polished models with square tails, silflex gears and metal wings are best! ;-).

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

Do you think this is because of the heel brakes? They seem awkward to me, of course I'm an uncoordinated Klutz, so maybe it's to be expected.

 

[yakdriver]

Doc, Luscombes have cable operated brakes and they work very well when adjusted properly but like Deb says parts are expensive and rare. As for heel brakes, they are no different than learning anything else and I like them personally. In most airplanes the heel brakes are set up so it is easy to apply one when you have full rudder deflection but awkward from neutral through about half pedal. This is great as it makes you use the rudder for corrections and only use the brake if you really need it. Also if you fly old airplanes you find out quick that the old shoe brakes heat up quick and become useless if used much so you don't touch them unless you need them. I use brakes for run up and to stop in my parking spot and rarely for anything else. Don

 

[RoscoeT]

I have no problem with internet critiques, but just take them with a grain of salt. Again, our airplanes handle a little differently.

You've mentioned this a couple times now. I'm curious, what makes the Luscombe so "different" from all the other tailwheel types that fundamental tailwheel handling techniques should be taken with a "grain of salt"? I haven't written or read anything in this thread that would not apply to any tailwheel type I've flown - Super Cub, Stearman, Pitts, C-120, Champ, Citabria, Decathlon, T-6, RVs, Waco UPF-7, J-3, Stinson 108. Each type has different control response and feel, but they all act like tailwheel airplanes, and I can't say I've fundamentally treated any of them any differently. I would apply anything in this thread to all these others. What makes the Luscombe so unique? I haven't flown one, so I'm asking.

 

[alfadog]

Here is a video from this week's practice in calmer winds. These are full-stop landings :wink2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM8WJ0TZZbE

As I previously mentioned, I practice touch and goes to work on the area I want to work on. If I were proficient enough to get off two or three wheel landings in one go-round in a stiff crosswind on a 4300' runway, then I would. But I was not so I did one at a time. I was not interested at that point in practicing letting the aircraft slow as I have not yet mastered using the brakes at the same time as the rudder in that xwind and barring learning to use the brakes, there was nothing I felt I needed to gain from letting it slow.

In this set, I am working on three-point, short-field, and using the brakes on roll-out since there was not much rudder needed with this wind. All the other stuff will come with practice

 

[dmccormack]

I was not interested at that point in practicing letting the aircraft slow as I have not yet mastered using the brakes at the same time as the rudder in that xwind and barring learning to use the brakes, there was nothing I felt I needed to gain from letting it slow.

Interesting point, as I find the most difficult part of a wheelie in crosswind is the transition from tail up to down.

On a 3 point (which the Chief prefers) I'm down and slowed to walking speed in no time, so I don't need brakes.

I'm with Deb on this -- save the brakes -- they are expensive and basically only good for holding in place during a runup or slowing down after an emergency landing.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Interesting point, as I find the most difficult part of a wheelie in crosswind is the transition from tail up to down.

On a 3 point (which the Chief prefers) I'm down and slowed to walking speed in no time, so I don't need brakes.

I'm with Deb on this -- save the brakes -- they are expensive and basically only good for holding in place during a runup or slowing down after an emergency landing.

This is one area where the difference in aircraft makes a big difference. With cable operated drum brakes, well, they can be either ineffective or grabby. Not something one would want to count on for dynamic maneuvering. A nice set of Cleveland disks, on the other hand make it easy to steer the airplane during the tail up to tail down transition. I once brought a Cessna 120 to a full stop with the tail up in the air using only brakes (no power to assist the elevator). Easy. But of course, when it stopped, the tail came down with a BANG!. On the other other hand, if you have cheap ass brakes like my LSA, the one thing you don't have to worry about is putting it up on it's nose... But I have no qualms about using them to assist the rudder.

 

[alfadog]

Interesting point, as I find the most difficult part of a wheelie in crosswind is the transition from tail up to down.

On a 3 point (which the Chief prefers) I'm down and slowed to walking speed in no time, so I don't need brakes.

I'm with Deb on this -- save the brakes -- they are expensive and basically only good for holding in place during a runup or slowing down after an emergency landing.

Well, I certainly want to get better in that phase also but I was working on what I felt I most needed work on. Very likely, if I had an instructor with me, he would had me transition to taildown to work on that aspect also. I had my hands full and did not think of that This is why critiques are good. Next time I am working on xwind wheel landings, I will slow and see if there is anything I need to work on there.

Yes, I do not want to use the brakes on a regular basis and up until last Tuesday, had not much used them at all. But, again, I do need to learn them and then I will go back to ignoring them.

 

[yakdriver]

You need to practice three point landings even in cross winds. You don't need to get in the habit of using brakes on roll out until you reach maximum pedal deflection, it is a bad habit to get into and mashing on brakes can get you in trouble real fast. Biggest thing is to learn to keep a light touch on the rudder and touch down straight. When you come down on final move the rudder back and forth slightly to keep your feet alive and light. Feel what the airplane is doing and it only takes a small input to keep things straight. If you have to wait and see the nose move right or left before you come in with a correction you are behind the airplane. Don

 

[alfadog]

You need to practice three point landings even in cross winds. You don't need to get in the habit of using brakes on roll out until you reach maximum pedal deflection, it is a bad habit to get into and mashing on brakes can get you in trouble real fast. Biggest thing is to learn to keep a light touch on the rudder and touch down straight. When you come down on final move the rudder back and forth slightly to keep your feet alive and light. Feel what the airplane is doing and it only takes a small input to keep things straight. If you have to wait and see the nose move right or left before you come in with a correction you are behind the airplane. Don

Thanks for the advice.

 

[N1347B]

You've mentioned this a couple times now. I'm curious, what makes the Luscombe so "different" from all the other tailwheel types that fundamental tailwheel handling techniques should be taken with a "grain of salt"? I haven't written or read anything in this thread that would not apply to any tailwheel type I've flown - Super Cub, Stearman, Pitts, C-120, Champ, Citabria, Decathlon, T-6, RVs, Waco UPF-7, J-3, Stinson 108. Each type has different control response and feel, but they all act like tailwheel airplanes, and I can't say I've fundamentally treated any of them any differently. I would apply anything in this thread to all these others. What makes the Luscombe so unique? I haven't flown one, so I'm asking.

Sorry, Roscoe, I wasn't referring to your post. I should have made that clear. Please forgive me. It has been my experience that most folks think all little vintage airplanes fly like a Cub.

The biggest difference I have found I'd that my 8E is hard to slow on final. Drop the nose a tad and I'm screaming at 90 mph. Pull back too far and I'm stalled. It is not an airplane that you can pull the stick to your gut all the way down on final. My stick doesn't come all the way back until my wheels are about inch off the ground.

Every time I have my flight review, my instructor, who has zillions of hours in everything, wants to pull the stick back too far too soon. I always end up screaming at him that it ain't a Cub!

He has a hard time slowing it down as well. I've shown him that our old friend, the slip, pegs the nose perfectly on 70 mph. I do wish I could trim my airplane for hands off for final. It is a characteristic of the 8E and her lard nose to need pressure all the way down.

That said Henry's lighter 8A trims well for final.

As for wheel landings we don't adjust our speed. If you want to three point pull the stick back. Lester runs out of speed and plops down. If I want to wheel land, keep the stick just shy of neutral until the wheels touch and pin it with a little forward stick. Increase forward stick until the tail touches. In mine, this means complete forward stick to the stops. Then pull back gently to pin it. I have rolled to a complete stop with the tail still up and full forward stick.

If the airplane, like all TWs, lands straight with the direction of travel there are no issues. The Luscombe gear does not handle side load well.

However, as the Luscombe slows is where the issues happen. My airplane can feel awful at that point. Most passengers think the landing is over and start chatting, but in reality it has just begun. I think this where most folks get into trouble. They start over controlling and make the situation worse. Using the brakes at this time is risky. If the pressure on the brake(s) is not steady, flipping is a good possibility. Most Luscombe owners don't use them at all. I have seen several flipped.

This is where I have read some really bad Internet stuff. Not all two-seat vintage airplanes are STOL with a jacked up engine capable of leaping a tall building in a single bound. I can't land on a dime and stomp the brakes. I don't have flaps to help me slow, but a good slip gets the job done most times. I only climb about 1000 fpm but I can easily cruise at 115 mph.

Not sure if I answered your question, but it has been a pleasant change to have some one to talk Luscombe with. Seldom happens on a non type specific forum.

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

 

[RoscoeT]

Deb - great info, thanks.

The Luscombe gear does not handle side load well.

I don't know how much better or worse a Luscombe does with side load than any others, but 'alfadog' tested out some pretty good side load a couple times in his first landing video...ha ha, sorry couldn't resist. But he gathered it up, unlike this guy who seemed to sit and watch it happen...no aft elevator when the tail was down and no rudder correction when the tail started coming around:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-nllpyVNTk

 

[alfadog]

Deb - great info, thanks.



I don't know how much better or worse a Luscombe does with side load than any others, but 'alfadog' tested out some pretty good side load a couple times in his first landing video...ha ha, sorry couldn't resist. But he gathered it up, unlike this guy who seemed to sit and watch it happen...no aft elevator when the tail was down and no rudder correction when the tail started coming around:

No prob, that one at 11:00 is definitely side-loading the right gear.

Re your link, the poster is blaming it on "very strong crosswind" but his wings are level and rudder straight at touchdown so where is the crosswind? Looks to my relatively inexperienced eye that he came in fast, did a bit of bouncing and entered into a PIO.

Or he did that ground loop on purpose as a "short-field landing" technique. He was holding left rudder as he looped to the left

 

[RoscoeT]

Re your link, the poster is blaming it on "very strong crosswind" but his wings are level and rudder straight at touchdown so where is the crosswind? Looks to my relatively inexperienced eye that he came in fast, did a bit of bouncing and entered into a PIO.

Or he did that ground loop on purpose as a "short-field landing" technique. He was holding left rudder as he looped to the left

You're right - doesn't look like much x-wind, since there was almost no wing down correction. If there had been a strong x-wind, to touchdown with the wings that level would have produced enough crab at touchdown to cause things to immediately head toward the weeds due to the side load. The plane kept going straight for a bit, but he got caught between a wheel landing and a 3-point, didn't do anything about it, PIO'd a bit, didn't use the rudder, and didn't get firm tailwheel contact.

But once the tail has come around far enough that there's no saving it, you're better off just letting it come around rather than fighting it and side loading the gear even more. In this case you might as well just put in left rudder to get the tail to come all the way around.