Learned a new secret for Steep Turns

[SkyHog]

I totally forgot to post this last week. When I went to do my PPL Checkride Part 2, I mentioned to the instructor that I always had a bit of difficulty with Steep Turns.

Her response baffled me. "I'll show you the best secret you've ever heard when we get up there."

I figured it'd be another of those crap tricks that don't really work - like the Old Man's Secret to Hot Starts or whatever. This one worked!

She likened the secret to aiming a gun at a target (being a hunter, this appealed to me a lot). Her secret was to establish straight and level like normal. Then, find a bug on the windscreen that lines up with the horizon. Then, start the turn. Keep the bug lined up with the horizon, much like keeping the gunsight centered when shooting.

I've never pulled a steep turn that accurately. I was probably within 10 feet or less the entire time. And since I was looking outside the entire time, I didn't fall to my normal mistake of staring at the Instrument Panel trying to cheat. And I also rolled out on my exact heading, without using the DG.

I like this trick a lot.

 

[Michael]

another nice trick i never knew...in steep turns, when established..let go of the rudder pedel and the plane will continue coordinated. i used to hold rudder throughout my turns.

 

[SkyHog]

Yeah, I was taught that rudder should only be applied when entering a turn, not to maintain it. I know what you mean tho - for a long time I kept the pedal down throughout the entire turn. Essentially skidding the entire steep turn.

One of my instructors got on my case for that one.

 

[poadeleted20]

You need to keep a LITTLE rudder in the turn to counter the small amount of adverse yaw due to the outboard wing going faster than the inboard, but in this case, a lot more rudder is needed to counter the much larger adverse yaw due to asymmetric aileron deflection while rolling in/out.

 

[Brian Austin]

You need to keep a LITTLE rudder in the turn to counter the small amount of adverse yaw due to the outboard wing going faster than the inboard, but in this case, a lot more rudder is needed to counter the much larger adverse yaw due to asymmetric aileron deflection while rolling in/out.

Ya know, I was just going to say that...

 

[jdwatson]

Why not use enough rudder to keep the ball centered, whatever that might be. My goal is to stay coordinated throughout.

 

[poadeleted20]

Why not use enough rudder to keep the ball centered, whatever that might be. My goal is to stay coordinated throughout.

Why even look at the ball? Anyone with more than about 15 hours with a good CFI should be able to feel whether the plane's in coordinated flight or not. And yes, that's the one exception to the "trust your instruments, not your senses" rule since the physical principles which move the ball are the same as those providing that sensation in the seat of your pants.

 

[jdwatson]

Hmmm... did I say 'look at the ball' ? I said, keep the ball centered.

Captain: Please note that I'm teasing you.

 

[Ken Ibold]

She likened the secret to aiming a gun at a target (being a hunter, this appealed to me a lot). Her secret was to establish straight and level like normal. Then, find a bug on the windscreen that lines up with the horizon. Then, start the turn. Keep the bug lined up with the horizon, much like keeping the gunsight centered when shooting.

Bug on the windshield? Whazzat?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I totally forgot to post this last week. When I went to do my PPL Checkride Part 2, I mentioned to the instructor that I always had a bit of difficulty with Steep Turns.

Her response baffled me. "I'll show you the best secret you've ever heard when we get up there."

I figured it'd be another of those crap tricks that don't really work - like the Old Man's Secret to Hot Starts or whatever. This one worked!

She likened the secret to aiming a gun at a target (being a hunter, this appealed to me a lot). Her secret was to establish straight and level like normal. Then, find a bug on the windscreen that lines up with the horizon. Then, start the turn. Keep the bug lined up with the horizon, much like keeping the gunsight centered when shooting.

I've never pulled a steep turn that accurately. I was probably within 10 feet or less the entire time. And since I was looking outside the entire time, I didn't fall to my normal mistake of staring at the Instrument Panel trying to cheat. And I also rolled out on my exact heading, without using the DG.

I like this trick a lot.

That is a very accurate method and I prefer to reference a synthetic aim point in relation to the whiskey compass housing, sweeping through the "average of the horizon" when in uneven terrian.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

She likened the secret to aiming a gun at a target (being a hunter, this appealed to me a lot). Her secret was to establish straight and level like normal. Then, find a bug on the windscreen that lines up with the horizon. Then, start the turn. Keep the bug lined up with the horizon, much like keeping the gunsight centered when shooting.

Either you were extremely lucky in selecting the perfect bug, or what worked was not holding the bug in the same spot straight&level versus steep turn, but instead simply the act of using the horizon as your reference point.

FWIW, most folks in a side by side seating aircraft, pilot on left, loose altitude in a right steep turn and gain altitude in a left steep turn. Why? The pilot's straight ahead visual reference point (the windshield bug in your case) is to the left of the aircraft centerline. Entering a steep turn to the right a reference point to the left of centerline rises relative to the horizon. Entering a steep turn to the left a reference point to the left of centerline descends relative to the horizon. As a result of this phenomenon, a pilot who tries to keep the straight & level reference point on the horizon in a steep left turn will pull the nose up in order to return the descending reference point back to the horizon line, causing the aircraft to climb (gain altitude) in the turn. Conversely, the pilot will push the nose down in a right steep turn in order to force the now rising straight and level reference point back down onto the horizon, causing the aircraft to descend (loose altitude) in the turn.

 

[kath]

FWIW, most folks in a side by side seating aircraft, pilot on left, loose altitude in a right steep turn and gain altitude in a left steep turn.

That's funny... I used to do the exact opposite in my steep turns (when I was doing them wrong, that is). Turning to the left, the windshield fills up with SKY and fools me into thinking I'm too high. Turning to the right, the windshield fills up with GROUND and I pull back thinking I'm too low. So I would lose altitude to the left and climb to the right.

In my case, my brain wasn't looking at any "bug" on the windshield, it's looking at the relative proportion of blue stuff and brown stuff and thinking (mistakenly) that they should be equal in order to be holding altitude. Would've taken me a long while to realize what I was doing wrong--fortunately my CFI figured it out first.

Now I use something like the "bug" method, and it's not perfect but it's a whole lot better.

--Kath

 

[jdwatson]

I use a "screw" in the cowling to put on the horizon and just keep it there. I have one for each direction. Eyes outside the whole time... if I start to go "instrument" the maneuver suffers. If I could only fly lazy-8s like my steep turns...