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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by PaulS, Jan 14, 2020.
Wow okay, I actually didn't mean to strike a nerve.. I did about 6 seconds of Googling and meant to include this: https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-taxes-federal-services-difference-by-state-2019-1 in the first post, as I was curious about N1120A's post about getting the monies back.. but posting on here via phone app is a pain
I digress. I don't *actually* care that much. Someday I'll retire in Montana on a lake
The only requirement on the ATC end for fuel dumping is to assign an altitude of at least 2,000 ft AHO and then keep aircraft 5 miles away. Obviously if in an emergency they could be well below that. Saw a MD-80 depart SAN once with an engine failure that immediately landed at Miramar. They were dumping fuel at 700 ft.
Track of DL089:
No one has found the live atc for it yet? It’s gotta be out there.
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Pick an answer. Or better yet...
Congratulations to the Delta pilots for returning safely - said no MSM anywhere.
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Would get pretty weirded out watching that pass overhead at low altitude. Will be curious made emergency dump over land required
It's up to 50 injured now. No experience with jet fuel, but used to use kerosene to clean up after working on sludge covered engines, gasoline too. Never irritated my skin.
Here come the law suits! I could see the hysteria in the moment not knowing what was coming out of an airplane that just coated your kid especially if they were looking up and got it in their eyes.
Do you realize what incredible improvements in air quality have been made in Los Angeles? Probably not, since you aren't from Los Angeles.
Since when did the MD80, or any narrowbody, have a fuel dump system?
Also, there was no way the aircraft was that high when they did this. They also had no need to dump, just do the over weight landing. They had 13000 feet and a headwind.
VASAviation already did a video
Of all the times I’ve been there, I haven’t noticed any difference, just something I dealt with.
In the early 90s the air was orange and smelled of bleach. Vast improvments have been made.
I guess you can't tell the difference between pollution and an inversion layer.
All those scary regulations that a certain set whine about have made a massive difference in Southern California's air quality in my lifetime.
60 injuries now: https://abc7.com/5849623/ .. and 70 firefighters and paramedics needed to do so
I can understand the concern from people seeing a plane overhead dumping stuff on them
But I mean.. it's basically "gas" (fine, closer to diesel). Have these people honestly never spilled gas filling the mower, or gotten their hands dirty working on cars or anything? Seems highly sensationalized. Main stream media has moved from "walk, don't run, don't panic" to "FREAK OUT, PANIC!" mode
Be nice now... we don’t need to start a whizzing match sir.
I am certain some of it got on me here in the Upper Mid-West... Who do i sue?
There is a big difference between getting an ounce of gas on you and hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds of fuel dumped on you.
It's offensive. The people of my state have done incredible work in cleaning the air and making this the best place on earth to live.
Hey @Ravioli - Tantalum does lease his friend's Cirrus. Know how I know? I've flown with him. I even have my own oxygen cannula.
So, you ready to head down to the airport and have someone grab the fuel hose and spray fuel all over you?
Good for them, I’m sure it’s better than it used to be. I apologize that my single comment was offensive to you. Might I suggest wearing a hard hat? Life can be tough at times when associating with others who share differing opinions.
Yah... Because atomized fuel falling from the sky is exactly like getting sprayed by a fuel hose...
Thousands of pounds does, and it hasn't atomized at that point.
...and everyone screaming "VICTIM" was doused with "thousands of pounds of fuel"...
You think they would have even noticed if they hadn't actually felt an injury? Planes fly over there all the time.
I think it's atomized as it comes out of the airplane. That's why it's a white vapor. Looks pretty cool in live; I've done it (dumped fuel). Pretty sure they would be able to smell it or sense it, but it's not like someone dropped a bucket of liquid fuel on them.
Yeah I guess it wasn’t a fuel dump after all. I just remember in the radar room tower saying they were going off shore to dump fuel. DC-9 also.
You've never had a JP-5 bath (Navy jet fuel). I have (Shut off valve failure or someone else's f-up) and it was sometimes in a location and at a time where it was difficult to remediate.
Jet 1A, JP-4/5 etc... is a big skin irritant. But, it takes having it soak through your clothing and then not immediately treated by removing clothing and washing affected area with soap and water. I suspect the kids were treated pretty quickly. And, I doubt any got soaked.
It appears that you think a fuel dump valve releases fuel in the same way that an aerial water bomber dumps water...
Rumors from other sources say a compressor stall and loss of an engine. Other rumors say the Captain wanted to land overweight and simply have the inspection done but the company disagreed.
Take with however many pounds of salt as you see appropriate...
Different carriers have different procedures or push it hard to Captain’s discretion per folks familiar with their own procedures. Bunch of folks said their airline would back them up on an overweight landing if the crew wanted the aircraft on the ground immediately and would just ground the airplane and do the inspection.
Anyway there’s the rumor mill.
No **** Sherlock. Who didn't know that? [Well, maybe everyone didn't, but I clearly did if you read my post]
Let's assume a 737 traveling at 200mph dropped ALL of it's fuel while inbound to an airport where it landed without further incident.
How many pounds of fuel would any single person get dumped on them? What would the drop area be?
Unless you're a moron, you could look at the drop area of a fire fighter plane DESIGNED to target a drop zone as reference. Passenger jets are not designed to target, and the drop would therefore take a lot of ground.
Im not sure anyone was seriously harmed but if out kids were sprayed with a chemical that rained down on them Im pretty sure I would take it rather seriously...
True. I've never bathed in Jet-A to that extreme.
LA has waaaaay more lawyers than work. 3 series was being generous. I think a majority likely appeared (especially with the school being just north of Watts) in Chrysler Sebrings or Geo Metros
And it was much worse yet in the 1950s and 1960s, when I grew up in eastern Los Angeles County, almost on the border of Orange County.
It was a one-mile walk home from my elementary school (yes, kids could do that in those days). I remember wondering, while walking home, why my chest hurt every time I took a deep breath. After I learned to drive I had to pull off to the side of the road more than once because my eyes were stinging so badly in the smog.
In the mid 1960s I learned to fly at the Fullerton Airport. I learned early on what -X2HK meant, and special VFR clearances were common. Often the controllers would call 3-mile visibility, when it seemed more wishful thinking than anything else. I remember being in the busy pattern as a solo student, and being told to extend downwind to St. Jude's Hospital, which is three miles east of the airport. Turning final into that hazy afternoon sun was an exercise in faith and local knowledge. No localizer back then.
Yeah, the SoCal smog is much improved now.
Having done most of my early aging in the mountains of Montana, riding through the LA area on my motorcycle in the early 90s was always an unpleasant experience. Like you said. Painful in the lungs and eyes. When I returned 20some years later I was very surprised to see it had changed quite a lot. Still didn;'t much care for riding through there, but more for traffic reasons and not painful lungs and eyes reason. (As much as I enjoyed the thrill and adrenaline of lane "sharing", I much prefer living somewhere the traffic makes it unnecessay).
Good thing Gweneth Paltrow wasn’t walking around with her new line of candles. That would have been quite the scent.
^this smells like my jet A
Dropping a little fuel is better than dropping a 777 on them.