Lasers and Airplanes

dmcmurry

dmcmurry

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 30, 2013
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Hawaii
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Display name:
dmcmurry
I've been wondering for a little while what my first posts would end up being, and as I was flying tonight I had an incident that I felt the need to share.

I was flying an approach into PHTO (Hilo, HI), when my cockpit was illuminated by a green laser (for anyone not aware this is highly illegal). I alerted the tower, and started describing the area in which the beam was coming from. I'm pretty sure this was the first time the controller at this tower had dealt with a laser incident because at first he wasn't sure why I was telling him about the laser, but when he caught on and got the laser report form out, he started asking questions about the laser while I was executing my circle for landing. At first I was answering his questions but when he was still trying to ask questions as I was rolling final I had to tell him to standby (What I wanted to do was yell at him that his inappropriate timing for questioning was just as bad a distraction as a laser to the face).

Has anyone else been on the bright end of a laser before? I'd like to hear your stories.


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OMG first post welcome to POA! =) Lasers upset the lot of us. Only Lenny Bruce is not afraid.

I haven't been hit, but I have been flying around at night at airports where there was a laser report. They take those seriously of course, and tend to broadcast the warning periodically for a period of time after the last sighting.

Regarding tower chatting you up on final, yes, I've had that happen. To be honest I love it when the approach controller drops me on top of the FAF at a terrible intercept angle, passes me to tower, who wants to discuss my inability to intercept at great length. They don't really know what you workload is, so I think "standby" is perfectly fine here.
 
Jesse had a similar incident last year. He posted about it here. Not sure what the end result of his police report was, but he'll probably chime in with his experience.

Welcome to PoA :)
 
I've also been lit up. Mine was a bright spotlight, not laser. KAPA tower took a report.
 
There was an incident here in Jax where an aircraft on approach reported a laser, and shortly thereafter another aicraft reported a laser. The second aircraft was a police helicopter sent to investigate the first report. Can you say "busted"?
 
Ken, was that the guy in the doctors lake area? I remember hearing about that when I was in jax a few months ago.
 
dmcmurry said:
Ken, was that the guy in the doctors lake area? I remember hearing about that when I was in jax a few months ago.
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The one I'm thinking of was up by Craig. But I occasionally participate in an air traffic control group (ZJAX, FACSFACJAX, USCG, etc) that meets monthly and there have been a LOT of laser incidents in Jax.

Well, plus the one where it was a real bullet that hit the pilot. That was a good one, too. Welcome to the South!
 
I had one hit me while on approach to Pittsburgh intl. about a month ago... if you are fully night adjusted, a direct hit can hurt like hell... good thing I live in Pittsburgh and knew the exact location where it was coming from so they could send some people out to investigate... no laughing matter... these things suck if you get a direct hit.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Well, plus the one where it was a real bullet that hit the pilot. That was a good one, too. Welcome to the South!
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Jeeze... Hard to use the "I was pointing at stars... It was an accident" line when it's a bullet.
 
I wear prescription glasses, and have wondered...are there any special filters, lens covers, etc, that would filter out laser light, especially the green ones?

Is it true the green ones can cause eye damage?

I seriously wish they could catch anybody who does this, and put a bullet in their head (and yes, I'm being 100% serious). Anybody who shines a laser at an airplane deserves to be put down. No trial, no jury, just immediate execution. /rantoff
 
Last week someone was lighting up airplanes on final to Austin Bergstrom (KAUS) with a green laser.

I wasn't hit, but several airliners were. The tower and approach controllers were warning everyone, and it was on the ATIS.
 
dmcmurry said:
"Unauthorized laser illumination" as if anyone has ever "authorized" a laser illumination event.
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Yes. They are charted and/or NOTAMed. They are used for military and astronomical purposes. Occasionally for entertainment.

They aren't typically green lasers.

Here's one:
FDC 0/7651 ZDC .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. LASER OPERATIONS EFFECTIVE 1005010001 UTC UNTIL 1112312359 UTC. SCIENTIFIC AND RESEARCH LASER OPERATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED AT THE NASA GODDARD SPACE CENTER IN GREENBELT, MARYLAND, LOCATED AT 390113N/764939W. THE SYSTEM IS INTERMITTENT, WITH POSSIBLE OPERATIONS HAPPENING 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK. THE LASER BEAM MAY BE INJURIOUS TO PILOTS/AIRCREWS AND PASSENGERS EYES FOR A DISTANCE OF 98,000 FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL. HOWEVER, THIS SYSTEM USES A LASER HAZARD REDUCTION SYSTEM RADAR THAT IS SLAVED TO THE TELESCOPE MOUNT TO ENSURE THE LASER IS DEACTIVATED IN THE EVENT AN AIRCRAFT APPROACHES. THE AREA WILL ALSO BE MONITORED BY OBSERVERS AND THE LASER BEAM WILL BE TERMINATED IF NONPARTICIPATING AIRCRAFT ARE DETECTED. LASER IRRADIANCE LEVELS WILL NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE EXPOSURE LEVELS WITHIN THE LASER FREE, CRITICAL FLIGHT, AND SENSITIVE FLIGHT ZONES. OTHER VISUAL EFFECTS, E.G., FLASHBLINDNESS, AFTER IMAGE, GLARE, AND DISTRACTION MAY OCCUR AT GREATER DISTANCES. THE POTOMAC TRACON /PCT/ PHONE NUMBER 540-349-7541 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY.
Click to expand...

A charted example is Mauna Kea, HI.
 
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LoneAspen said:
I wear prescription glasses, and have wondered...are there any special filters, lens covers, etc, that would filter out laser light, especially the green ones?

Is it true the green ones can cause eye damage?

I seriously wish they could catch anybody who does this, and put a bullet in their head (and yes, I'm being 100% serious). Anybody who shines a laser at an airplane deserves to be put down. No trial, no jury, just immediate execution. /rantoff
Click to expand...

You can check out nightflightconcepts. They sell glasses with filters but not sure of anything with a prescription. I've submitted a request to my company to get filters for our NVGs. We've started to see an increase in laser activity in our area. Like to protect my retinas if I can.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes. They are charted and/or NOTAMed. They are used for military and astronomical purposes. Occasionally for entertainment.

They aren't typically green lasers.

Here's one:


A charted example is Mauna Kea, HI.
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I stand corrected. I guess I was figuring from the standpoint of a pilot authorizing someone to shine a laser at them, a opposed to authorized laser operations with accidental aircraft illumination. Learn something new every day.
 
One of the problems with an eyeglass filter for lasers is they all will result in your pupils opening up more than they normally would - which makes your eyes more susceptible to damage.

And for the same reason that you wouldn't wear sunglasses at night, you also wouldn't wear these filters at night.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
One of the problems with an eyeglass filter for lasers is they all will result in your pupils opening up more than they normally would - which makes your eyes more susceptible to damage.
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They're "wrap around". Don't think you have cause for concern.

Pretty impressive specs, if truthful:

97% Blue Beam reduction
99.5% Green Beam reduction
49% visible light transmittance
for low light conditions
Good instrument panel visibility
Traffic signal color recognition
Meets ANSI and CE laser standards
 
Rigged4Flight said:
One of the problems with an eyeglass filter for lasers is they all will result in your pupils opening up more than they normally would - which makes your eyes more susceptible to damage.

And for the same reason that you wouldn't wear sunglasses at night, you also wouldn't wear these filters at night.
Click to expand...


That's why you wear these glasses at night. After 30-45 mins you're dark adapted and your eyes are going to be suseptible to damage. They provide almost 100 % of protection. Same reason why we attach the LIF to our goggles in the military; to protect our eyesight.

http://nightflightconcepts.com/pdf/LaserDefense/LaserArmorAviatorGlasses_Datasheet_v4_LowRes.pdf
 
When I was in the Air Force (decades ago) I worked on the Pave Spike and other laser targeting systems. We always had our lab illuminated at very bright levels to keep our pupils narrow, and when the laser was firing we wore very firm-fitting goggles. The very few times that we ever had laser-related injuries were all due to goggles that were improperly worn. Lasers are just coherent light. Any surface they shine against will reflect them in sometimes unpredictable directions.
 
I do lasers for entertainment. It is a huge deal for us to avoid people and airplanes when we do outdoor shows. We terminate in between floors of buildings, on roofs, or in the trees, for example. Having an accident could cause us to lose our variance which would then put us out of business.

Sometimes, we do get unrestricted clearance. Most of the times, we are told to terminate in a safe area and the NOTAM will go out for awareness.

We can do audience scanning but this is a different area with lenses to diffuse the light to make it safe with many other precautions taken. Metering, etc. I have goggles for aiming if I need to be in a potential danger zone. The shows below go above the audience or around the performer.

This handheld green laser stuff is junk and putting it on aircraft makes it harder for us to get clearances when safety is our top priority. The ones available on eBay are 5 mW where the ones below are above 15W and the one going around the artist is above 25W. We have up to 80W if my memory is right.

They're are definitely a great aspect to a show, but potentially dangerous, like everything fun.





 
Just over 500 hours and no laser events. Did have a night flight with my instructor week before July 4th (our field is in the desert) that several guys on ATV's began firing while we were on short final - you could tell it was deliberate as we were in a 152 on long final and they didn't come up at us until we were at 150-200 feet. Uncontrolled airport, told sheriff but not much interest.
 
I've had one green laser illumination incident a couple years ago, on a night flight over the Portland, Oregon area. It was not fun. Very, very bright and surprising light, partially blinding me temporarily - and definitely killing my night vision.

I reported immediately to Portland approach while getting lit up. They asked the requisite questions, sent the police to look. Pretty sure they never caught anyone. The approach controllers followed the protocol to announce to others periodically for the next little while that there had been a laser event.

Youtube video of a recent Portland arrest (different incident than mine): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k4C8grAGP4

From http://www.kgw.com/news/Video-surveillance-by-plane-led-to-laser-arrest-229185401.html

Laser attacks on planes have increased nationwide from a few hundred instances in 2005 to nearly 3,500 reports in 2012.

The FBI says Portland has one of the highest numbers of reported lasers attacks in the nation. Through mid-October, pilots in Portland reported 127 laser incidents this year. They reported 100 incidents in 2012 and 51 in 2011.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Stephen F. Peifer said in court that (Stephen Francis) Bukucs admitted pointing a green laser light at aircraft at least 25 times and said he did it "for excitement, for thrills."
Click to expand...

Also, the guy apparently walks his cat on a leash...
 
We'd be doing the gene pool some good if these dudes were taken out of circulation...
 
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