Landing roll - book error?

flyingcheesehead

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A friend pointed me towards a book today that I think contains an error. The book is "The Illustrated Guide to Aerodynamics" by Hubert Smith.

Check this page on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=C8...page&q=ground roll+weight of aircraft&f=false

The last paragraph above "Jet Aircraft Performance" reads:

Landing is affected by wind and runway slope in just the same way that takeoff is affected. Altitude (pressure and temperature) also affects landing performance, but not at much as takeoff because engine power is not involved. Weight affects the airborne distance because increased weight means higher L/D and thus longer airborne distance. The ground roll is not affected by weight, though. Higher weight means more mass to be decelerated, but also a proportional amount of increase of braking force, due to frictional force being proportional to weight; thus, the two factors cancel each other out, and the ground roll is unchanged.

Emphasis mine - That does not seem to be correct to me.

First, the friction part of the equation: f = µsFn where µs is the static coefficient of friction, and Fn is the normal force, which will vary with weight. So it is true that there will be more friction with the heavier airplane, and all else being equal the bolded statement above would be true. So, say we have a 3000 pound airplane and a 2500 pound airplane of the same type on the same runway - According to Wikipedia, µs of rubber on concrete is 1.0, so f would equal 3000 lbf and 2500 lbf respectively.

However, the purpose of the landing roll is to dissipate kinetic energy. KE = (1/2)mv^2. Now, if we assume that velocity is equal, then the author of the book would appear to be correct as the difference in mass creates a linear relationship in both kinetic energy and friction, and they would in fact "cancel out."

However, the lighter airplane will be able to maintain the same angle of attack at a slower airspeed, so landing at the same angle of attack (be it critical for a full-stall landing or a degree or two shy of critical), v would vary with the square root of the proportion of the weights. So, if we pick Vo as the velocity that the ligher airplane can land at, the heavier airplane will land at Vo(sqrt(3000/2500)), or 1.095Vo. So, the kinetic energy of the lighter airplane would be 1250Vo^2 and the KE of the heavier airplane would be 1500(1.095Vo)^2 = 1798.5Vo^2.

Since the kinetic energy of the heavier airplane is 43.88% greater than that of the ligher airplane, and its braking force available is only 20% greater, it seems to me that the landing roll would in fact be longer with the heavier airplane.

So, who's right - Me, or the author of the Illustrated Guide to Aerodynamics? :dunno:
 
yes it seems he is assuming that touchdown speed is equal
 
Take off in Kansas and land at Leadville and tell me again how altitude and temperature don't affect things as much as other factors??!

That whole paragraph is whacked.

There's a reason manufacturers take new jets to high altitude airports as a normal part of certification testing.
 
Take off in Kansas and land at Leadville and tell me again how altitude and temperature don't affect things as much as other factors??!
To be fair, what he really said was that DA doesn't affect landing as much as it affects takeoff which is true.
 
To be fair, what he really said was that DA doesn't affect landing as much as it affects takeoff which is true.

Right, but it tends to give the wrong impression, is all I was saying.

That landing in Leadville will be much longer than the takeoff in Kansas.
 
Once you understand the assumptions, then the book is correct. And it explains why braking distance charts in our airplanes generally DON'T have different columns for weight - only for altitude and temp, which matter a lot more.

The assumption seems to be that the author is talking about identical conditions (the same airplane, touching down at the same speed) with the only difference being the weight.
 
Right, but it tends to give the wrong impression, is all I was saying.

That landing in Leadville will be much longer than the takeoff in Kansas.


But that's not what he said. What he said on that matter was that the difference in the landing between Leadville and Kansas will not be as great as the difference in take off because the HP of the engine is not in play. That part of it is accurate. It only gives the wrong impression if one does not read it properly. It was not particularly confusing in how it was written either.

As far as landing distance not being effected by weight, the author of the article is incorrect, it most definitely does increase with weight for multiple independent reasons.

There is one thing that Kent didn't factor in and that is the transition time between touchdown and full weight on the wheels to develop full friction, that may actually be to the advantage of heavy. Then there is also the factor not considered is the operational thermal limit of the brakes. With large aircraft, this may actually be the limiting factor in a normal operations setting. Obviously they are going to be capable of greater in emergencies or known short operations, however it starts getting cost prohibitive in parts wear.

With smaller planes there is the total effectiveness of the brakes. If you can't lock up your brakes once you have full weight on the wheels, then you will lose ground with added weight from that point on.
 
I live in fear of you guys reading my book (for which I just FINALLY got the proofs).
 
Right, but it tends to give the wrong impression, is all I was saying.
If giving the wrong impression about how things work, then purd near everyone who writes about flight training and all the flight instructors would be locked up.

"Stall speed increases with bank angle" is a prime example.
 
With smaller planes there is the total effectiveness of the brakes. If you can't lock up your brakes once you have full weight on the wheels, then you will lose ground with added weight from that point on.

Exactly. The author assumes that one is traction-limited rather than braking-limited.
 
I live in fear of you guys reading my book (for which I just FINALLY got the proofs).

relax. Pilots, being really cheap b******s, are unlikely to buy the book in order to read it.
 
Once you understand the assumptions, then the book is correct.

Except he didn't specify any assumptions - He just asserted that weight has no effect on landing distance. So it's not correct. It's only correct under a specific set of unstated, limited circumstances. :nono:
 
Except he didn't specify any assumptions - He just asserted that weight has no effect on landing distance. So it's not correct. It's only correct under a specific set of unstated, limited circumstances. :nono:
What he stated may be correct according to the parameters he laid out (same approach speed) but is of no use in the real world.
 
What he stated may be correct according to the parameters he laid out (same approach speed) but is of no use in the real world.

My beef is that he DIDN'T lay out that parameter, and his assertion is only true when the approach speeds are the same.

Ah well. It just redlined my BS meter, and I wanted to make extra-extra-sure I was thinking about it right. :thumbsup:
 
What he stated may be correct according to the parameters he laid out (same approach speed) but is of no use in the real world.
Hence the trap for theoreticians trying to operate in the real world.
In theory, there's no difference between theory and reality. In reality, there is.
My beef is that he DIDN'T lay out that parameter, and his assertion is only true when the approach speeds are the same.
Agreed. Often the problem with theoretical discussions is not the theory, but the assumptions.
Falsity in underlying assumptions is often invisible, and the effects profound.
 
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