Landing Clearance

[flyingcheesehead]

IMO, it is NOT a good idea to just automatically make reports that the controller didn't ask for, or do things that they didn't tell you to.

The first takes up time, both on frequency and for the controller. They may be doing something you can't hear, such as recording an ATIS, calling another facility for another plane's IFR clearance, or talking to another aircraft on ground or clearance frequencies. They know you're in the pattern, let 'em do their job.

If you don't get cleared to land by base to final, ask if you are. If you don't get a clearance, go around. But, extending downwind when they didn't tell you to may mess up their sequencing - Say there's a learjet on approach that's 12 miles out, he's going to be down in 4 minutes but he's not on the tower frequency yet. The controller is doing something important that you can't hear, and you go extending your downwind - Now what? You have to extend your downwind for a long time, making your final take a long time and potentially getting in the way of other aircraft on arrival. Or, depending on airspace, they may have to come up with some other trickery to keep you out of the way.

You're the pilot. Fly the plane. Let the controller be the controller.

 

[Jaybird180]

Jaybird FlyingCheeseHead are you trying to say "closed traffic approved" is an authorization to do the option on your own?

I'm sure I heard this somewhere....

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm sure I heard this somewhere....

You sure as heck didn't hear it from me, not sure why you put my name on there...

 

[Jaybird180]

C:\Basica.com
10 START
20 Goto 10
30 END


Sorry, best I can do without drawing a flowchart

 

[Ateaist]

I fly out of a class D. While doing pattern work, I've been cleared everywhere from still climbing to turning base.

I know at our airport, the same controller is usually handling ground and air as well as posting a new ATIS at 10 til every hour. For that reason, I like to call as I turn crosswind to downwind. That way, they have a few extra seconds to get back to me.

This ^^^ I train out of a really busy Class D field (KMYF), and most of the time do my touch 'n go's at a less busy airports (KSDM or KRNM). I always get clearance for the next touch and go on the downwind, and if I haven't heard from the controller by the time I'm abeam the numbers I remind him/her of my existence. I once asked my CFI if I can turn base without having clearance, and his answer was basically "Not unless you are willing to die." For the record, I'm not.

 

[roncachamp]

This ^^^ I train out of a really busy Class D field (KMYF), and most of the time do my touch 'n go's at a less busy airports (KSDM or KRNM). I always get clearance for the next touch and go on the downwind, and if I haven't heard from the controller by the time I'm abeam the numbers I remind him/her of my existence. I once asked my CFI if I can turn base without having clearance, and his answer was basically "Not unless you are willing to die." For the record, I'm not.

Did your CFI explain the hazard he believed inherent in turning base without a landing clearance?

 

[Velocity173]

This ^^^ I train out of a really busy Class D field (KMYF), and most of the time do my touch 'n go's at a less busy airports (KSDM or KRNM). I always get clearance for the next touch and go on the downwind, and if I haven't heard from the controller by the time I'm abeam the numbers I remind him/her of my existence. I once asked my CFI if I can turn base without having clearance, and his answer was basically "Not unless you are willing to die." For the record, I'm not.

Tell your CFI that in the Army it's actually SOP in flight school that we report base for clearance. The last base I was stationed at (SVN), tower would almost always say to report base. If I didn't get clearance on base, oh well I report final. Nothing dangerous about reporting base.

Too often we put out info on these threads about experiences instead of rules. 1. No rule that tower will make you report anything. 2. No rules that say you have to report anything either if tower didn't tell you to. All techniques. Just make sure you get a clearance before touching the pavement.

Some people have expressed a danger in turning base because of an aircraft on final. First, if there's an aircraft on straight-in, 90 % of the time tower will give you a clearance in downwind to sequence you with the traffic. If they don't then either the straight-in is not a factor or they forgot. On the extremely rare ocassion that they forgot about you, I would hope you all would have enough SA to sequence yourself around another aircraft on final just as you would at an uncontrolled airport.

 

[Ateaist]

Did your CFI explain the hazard he believed inherent in turning base without a landing clearance?

What would happen if you were denied clearance? Would you "extend base" and cross the potential flight path of aircraft coming straight in for one or both runways? You can always extend the downwind without interfering with other traffic, but once you make the turn to base your ability to maneuver seems limited.

 

[roncachamp]

What would happen if you were denied clearance?

I'd ask for the reason. Though it's unlikely I'd actually have to ask, the controller will probably state the reason and if it's for traffic he'd say where it is and what it's doing.

Would you "extend base" and cross the potential flight path of aircraft coming straight in for one or both runways?

No, absent any other instruction I'd turn final.

You can always extend the downwind without interfering with other traffic, but once you make the turn to base your ability to maneuver seems limited.

Why hasn't the controller mentioned or spoken to this other traffic? Why is he not visible to me while on downwind?

 

[Ateaist]

No, absent any other instruction I'd turn final.?

Final question - I promise... What do you do after turning final without clearance to land? Overfly the runway?

 

[roncachamp]

Final question - I promise... What do you do after turning final without clearance to land? Overfly the runway?

Absent any other instruction, yes. But as I said before the controller is not going to deny landing clearance without stating the reason and most likely issuing further instructions.

 

[danhagan]

No, absent any other instruction I'd turn final.

Why hasn't the controller mentioned or spoken to this other traffic? Why is he not visible to me while on downwind?

Haze and he was just handed off from approach to tower.

 

[roncachamp]

Haze and he was just handed off from approach to tower.

Why didn't tower mention him when I was denied landing clearance?

 

[Velocity173]

Haze and he was just handed off from approach to tower.

Unless you're doing SVFR closed traffic you're gonna need at least 3 miles with that haze. I would think you would see someone on final with 3 miles vis. Also a controller can still give traffic to the downwind without communicating with the late "handoff" on final. I would hope approach transferred comms prior to the straight-in entering tower's airspace anyway.

 

[N801BH]

Many Class D airports do not have radar and are doing in by sight. Do not know how common this is but I would not assume that class D airports have radar capability. I know my home airport does not.

Doug

Good point.. Take Jackson Hole for instance..... You fly in here and see a really nice, new tower, and a nice, new radar site just sitting there going round and round and you assume they have radar contact with you....

Not here, NOPE, NADA... The signal off the radar site is sent via fiber to Salt Lake City, 240 miles away.. The tower is not allowed to have a display screen up in the cab from the radar that sits 300 feet away...