Landing attitude.

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Bill Weber

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Bill W
Just wondering...

Why is it that in a Cessna 172 you are told the land with a nose high attitude and yet when I notice the local T6 Texan 2s land they ALWAYS three-point them. Is this to do with nose structure strength or is there something else at play that I'm unaware of?

TIA!
 
From your vantage point it may look like they’re landing three-point, but they’re not. They flare and land on the mains just like any other tricycle geared airplane. I’ve seen a few land and they certainly didn’t land flat.
 
Bill Weber said:
Just wondering...

Why is it that in a Cessna 172 you are told the land with a nose high attitude and yet when I notice the local T6 Texan 2s land they ALWAYS three-point them. Is this to do with nose structure strength or is there something else at play that I'm unaware of?

TIA!
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images
 
Ryanb said:
From your vantage point it may look like they’re landing three-point, but they’re not. They flare and land on the mains just like any other tricycle geared airplane. I’ve seen a few land and they certainly didn’t land flat.
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Like just about any taildragger, they can be three-pointed or wheel-landed. It's a pilot's preference and skill that determines what he does. In the three-point touchdown, the taildragger's speed is at a minimum so it's landing is shorter and bouncing is unlikely.

Landing a trike three-pointed means that the touchdown speed is way too high; remember that in the flare, where the airplane's trajectory is essentially level, nose-up means a high angle of attack and level (flat) attitude means a low angle of attack, and to keep the airplane airborne you need more AoA at low airspeed and less at high airspeed. Many, many pilots are carrying the approach speed right down to the runway instead of slowing the airplane down when they're still 20 or 30 feet up, and that excess speed means that the airplane will touch down three-point. That's a bad habit. It can start porpoising if the nosewheel touches first. It can wheelbarrow along on the nosewheel alone with the mains off the surface a bit. The pilot might flare abruptly and balloon the airplane, running out of speed some distance up. All of these often result in accidents. As well, the brakes can easily lock the wheels, skidding and blowing out the tires.

Trikes and taildraggers are different animals on the ground.
 
Forget the gear. Look at the AOA of the wing. A typical landing in a 172 approximates a typical tail low wheeler in a tail dragger, which is the attitude of choice for STOL ops.
 
In training I always felt like the 172 was gonna drag the tail across the runway and I ended up digging the nose gear into the runway.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Like just about any taildragger, they can be three-pointed or wheel-landed. It's a pilot's preference and skill that determines what he does. In the three-point touchdown, the taildragger's speed is at a minimum so it's landing is shorter and bouncing is unlikely.

Landing a trike three-pointed means that the touchdown speed is way too high; remember that in the flare, where the airplane's trajectory is essentially level, nose-up means a high angle of attack and level (flat) attitude means a low angle of attack, and to keep the airplane airborne you need more AoA at low airspeed and less at high airspeed. Many, many pilots are carrying the approach speed right down to the runway instead of slowing the airplane down when they're still 20 or 30 feet up, and that excess speed means that the airplane will touch down three-point. That's a bad habit. It can start porpoising if the nosewheel touches first. It can wheelbarrow along on the nosewheel alone with the mains off the surface a bit. The pilot might flare abruptly and balloon the airplane, running out of speed some distance up. All of these often result in accidents. As well, the brakes can easily lock the wheels, skidding and blowing out the tires.

Trikes and taildraggers are different animals on the ground.
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Except he is talking about a Texan II
 
Im a tail low 2pt kinda guy myself
 
Dan Thomas said:
Landing a trike three-pointed means that the touchdown speed is way too high;
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Mmmm. There are SOME trikes that land VERY flat. Usually ones equipped with STOL toys or designed for it from the factory.

If you get mine as slow as it’ll fly by book speeds, power off, you’ll run out of elevator.

But other factory aircraft with similar high lift devices hanging out from everywhere also come to mind. They’re landing flat in most photographs.

The thing is though, they’ll make you get the elevator back in the same way you’re suggesting folks should in the faster flying ones, or you’ll hit nose gear first.

The airshow demos with airliner and fire tanker sized STOL stuff often had runway passes with a touch of extra speed on with only the nosewheel on the ground.

Probably the most dramatic I’ve seen in person is the Buffalo. That’s fun to watch. Crap hanging from everywhere on the wing and it goes by in a nose-wheelie.

So... there’s SOME that land pretty flat. Ours will also lift off flat if you do the Robertson book 30 degree flap takeoff with no weight in the back. It’s a whole lot of ridiculous but really nice for getting up off of gravel to stop throwing it into the tail. :)
 
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