Labor Guides

tmyers

tmyers

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Tim Myers
Ok, I searched and found nothing on this subject so here goes.

Auto mechanics have Labor Guides that give them an indication of how long it should take to change the water pump on a 2012 Chevy.

Does anything exist in the aviation community for A&P's to use to estimate the time to perform a task? And where could this be found?
 
I've never seen anything like a list. Service bulletins often have labor hours estimates for planning purposes.
 
Some old ones exist, most stored in the back room with the Cleveland brake and Tri Pacer parts manuals.

Most of the shops know the approximate times that will actually be required for each task they perform and use that number as a starting point. If the job goes as planned, the estimate will be the final cost. If a glitch arises, the shop will (or should) contact the owner and obtain written permission (by email) to proceed with the fix.

The software programs now used by many shops are a valuable tool for researching past jobs to determine time required. The keyword function for both description, repair, parts, etc. greatly simplifies the search process
 
Are the software programs you mention mostly based upon historical data entered over time or do they have a suggested number of hours for a task that you can then tweak based upon your own efficiencies?
 
Both. They provide the capability to create "kits" for parts, labor, outside services, etc. A simple but typical example is an oil change for a twin. It would include the normal labor charge + parts (oil and filters) plus whatever else that normally shows up on those jobs. The kits are good for efficiency, as they normally include specific parts numbers and notes regarding potential problem issues.

If no kit has been entered in the system, they just use the keyword function to see past jobs.

tmyers said:
Are the software programs you mention mostly based upon historical data entered over time or do they have a suggested number of hours for a task that you can then tweak based upon your own efficiencies?
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Is this software readily available and if so who sells it? I am thinking it may be quite pricey. Looking for something for mostly non turbine work to start a database with.
 
Numerous sources for software, all have their talking points.

I prefer Ebis and see more log entries from it than any other software during a typical year's reading of logbooks in conjunction with acquisition projects. For a 6-10 mechanic shop I'd budget $20k as the purchase price and be willing to bet that after a year the shop owner would agree it's the best money he ever spent for running his business.



tmyers said:
Is this software readily available and if so who sells it? I am thinking it may be quite pricey. Looking for something for mostly non turbine work to start a database with.
Click to expand...
 
Ebis has a good demo package and Michael will answer any questions.

You'll find it to be extremely comprehensive with functions. It can track core returns, prepare status lists for line-items (ready for billing review, need inspection) establish uniform (or graduated) parts pricing, handle sales taxes, shop expendables and supplies and other somewhat obscure processes that are very helpful when needed. The shop notes and tech note features are extremely helpful as are the computer-generated time cards.

Like all software there are a few things you will wish were different, but the company is quite responsive to customer input. The only thing I still want is the ability to list squawks in cost order on the invoice so the owner can see the big stuff first without thumbing through a 20-page invoice to find them.

tmyers said:
Thanks for your help Wayne, I will check into it.
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I doubt the manufacturer of a new airplane pays what ever labor a shop wants for warranty work, so you can bet they have them.
 
True. Cirrus service centers were among the first Ebis users.

Clip4 said:
I doubt the manufacturer of a new airplane pays what ever labor a shop wants for warranty work, so you can bet they have them.
Click to expand...
 
20K would be a bit steep for a start up Mx shop but it will give me a good starting point.
 
Probably so, but it could be cheaper if you don't need all the machines, licenses and stuff. Michael can explain it and you can do the math for your shop.

tmyers said:
20K would be a bit steep for a start up Mx shop but it will give me a good starting point.
Click to expand...
 
FYI, he may or may not remember me. It's been 5-6 years and I quickly punted all the direct interaction to the shop owner, figuring my work was done on that project,it would be more effective if they handled it directly and I had other fish to fry on process improvement at the shop. If you remind him that the shop is DFW Aero he will know immediately.
tmyers said:
Call placed, message left.
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Best labor guide of which I can think is bend over and take it like a man.
 
I wrote ours in-house for our 8-man shop. Took about 4 years to "dial in", but it works well for us now. As a computer nerd, the ebis pricetag was unthinkable, and it thought differently than I did about certain processes. Of course at my normal bill rate, I probably ended up paying 7 figures for our system, but it thinks the way we think. :D

If you wanted a peek at what we created, I could share it with ya, and if it seems useful, I bet we could work out something a few orders of magnitude cheaper than ebis to host you a copy.
 
I've seen a labor guide for a Cessna 210. It listed the manhours required to do a long list of maintenance items such as removing and replacing an alternator, cylinder removal, etc. I suspect they exist for other aircraft also.
 
schmookeeg said:
I wrote ours in-house for our 8-man shop. Took about 4 years to "dial in", but it works well for us now. As a computer nerd, the ebis pricetag was unthinkable, and it thought differently than I did about certain processes. Of course at my normal bill rate, I probably ended up paying 7 figures for our system, but it thinks the way we think. :D

If you wanted a peek at what we created, I could share it with ya, and if it seems useful, I bet we could work out something a few orders of magnitude cheaper than ebis to host you a copy.
Click to expand...

BOHICA


Bend over here it comes again

Shoot that was supposed to be Steingars quote
 
Witmo said:
I've seen a labor guide for a Cessna 210. It listed the manhours required to do a long list of maintenance items such as removing and replacing an alternator, cylinder removal, etc. I suspect they exist for other aircraft also.
Click to expand...

That what I was looking for. Do you know who published it or was it from Cessna?
 
Was it prepared as a guide to actual time required or as a flat-rate billing manual?

Witmo said:
I've seen a labor guide for a Cessna 210. It listed the manhours required to do a long list of maintenance items such as removing and replacing an alternator, cylinder removal, etc. I suspect they exist for other aircraft also.
Click to expand...
 
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