LA Class B

NJP_MAN

NJP_MAN

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Shawn
I have a potential trip this week to the Los Angeles area with a student in his airplane. I will be flying in to either HHR or TOA and it will be VFR. I would file IFR except I want the student to get experience the way he will be flying (in the distant future).

I have a route that looks good but my question is this, If I am on flight following will the SOCAL TRACON vector me around the way they want me to fly or do most people fly their planned VFR route and merely get traffic advisories from control?

I hope my question makes sense if not I will try to reword it.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I have a potential trip this week to the Los Angeles area with a student in his airplane. I will be flying in to either HHR or TOA and it will be VFR. I would file IFR except I want the student to get experience the way he will be flying (in the distant future).

I have a route that looks good but my question is this, If I am on flight following will the SOCAL TRACON vector me around the way they want me to fly or do most people fly their planned VFR route and merely get traffic advisories from control?

I hope my question makes sense if not I will try to reword it.
Click to expand...

If you fly within the VFR corridor they generally won't vector you, otherwise, yes.
 
LA class B looks intimidating, but it's actually not that bad. To get in to HHR is easy. You're skirting right next to the B to the ground, but as long as you're south of the 105 you're good. I service my plane at HHR and I'm based at EMT, so I fly in there all the time. I never get flight following for that trip - just load up and go. If it's busy, it can be good to advise on the common advisory freq 123.02 so that other aircraft can keep a lookout for you. Enjoy the trip!
 
Having learned in the LA area, expect vectors all the time. Even on flight plans, I was ping ponging through until clearof the basin.
 
Hi Tony.
There is information missing, to give you better help, and what I describe here assumes that you come from the East / Banning or over the mountains.
It depends on the equipment, your chart understanding, traffic, TFRs that can pop up with the politicians being here for fund raisers etc.
Things can be very simple, over fly everything, at 6500, until WSW of KSNA then drop down to 3500, or below when out of Class C at KSNA, get ATIS, at KTOA contact tower and you are done, or over fly the KTOA, above 2500 and do the same for KHHR, make sure you remain South of KHHR, see chart.
Worst case you are on flight following, which does not guarantee that you are kept out of Class B, it's your responsibility to verify and confirm, you get Flight Service terminated. In either case you need to be prepared for the worst, and get all the frequencies, know where you are and whom to contact at all / any time.
The Controllers around here are very professional but have very low tolerance for pilots that do not follow the proper instructions. Post here if you need more info.
I am sorry, I could not insert the image, will try later, I hope the text helps. TV
 
bluesideup said:
Hi Tony.
There is information missing, to give you better help, and what I describe here assumes that you come from the East / Banning or over the mountains.
It depends on the equipment, your chart understanding, traffic, TFRs that can pop up with the politicians being here for fund raisers etc.
Things can be very simple, over fly everything, at 6500, until WSW of KSNA then drop down to 3500, or below when out of Class C at KSNA, get ATIS, at KTOA contact tower and you are done, or over fly the KTOA, above 2500 and do the same for KHHR, make sure you remain South of KHHR, see chart.
Worst case you are on flight following, which does not guarantee that you are kept out of Class B, it's your responsibility to verify and confirm, you get Flight Service terminated. In either case you need to be prepared for the worst, and get all the frequencies, know where you are and whom to contact at all / any time.
The Controllers around here are very professional but have very low tolerance for pilots that do not follow the proper instructions. Post here if you need more info.
I am sorry, I could not insert the image, will try later, I hope the text helps. TV
Click to expand...

I'd rather take the vectors. Trying not to bust all sorts of airspace is not worth this kind of throttle Jockie status. I'd rather be cleared through than trying to read a map, look outside and pumping the yoke for traffic.
 
Hi Unit74.
Nothing wrong with that idea, getting Flight Following headings, vectors are given to IFR flights, but if you think that overfly at 6500 is too complicated then the other way has no superlatives to describe.
I do agree that having / getting Flight Following is better for safety, and it is the best way to do it, but it's still your responsibility to See and and Avoid and remain clear of Class B.
I just wanted to point out that there are other ways to do it, and your / his students may want to know about it. TV
 
Unit74 said:
Having learned in the LA area, expect vectors all the time. Even on flight plans, I was ping ponging through until clearof the basin.
Click to expand...


Agreed. All the controllers around LA that I have experienced are very professional, informative and understanding ( well except the guy at KWHP :dunno:).

I always get flight following on a trip, and get hand offs along the way to the relevant folks on the ground. They keep you clear of the Class B or give you the clearance if needed.
If im just buzzing around site seeing I often just call the closest tower to announce who and where I am, I often get told "youre above/outside my area, but thanks and you might want to tower xxxx in about 10 min to let them know your around" always better to be told you didn't need to call than get busted for something.

But for the OP's trip get flight following, ask for advisories, tell them youre new to the area and if you need the Class B clearance ask for it.
 
Tony,

If you are looking for Bravo experience, the LA airspace is great as there are several published VFR transition routes and even one SFRA route that you can transition WITHOUT even speaking to ATC through Bravo. If you elect that route however while you are on FF, you will be dumped as you are supposed to self report you position. They are all listed on the LA TAC...which you are required to have on board to use one of the routes. Although I have gotten "Direct to" and vectors in LAX Bravo, it was only after being cleared on a published transition route. There is not too much free flying through LAX B, especially if it is busy. Short of a north to south transition, you will be in an approach path if you are anywhere else in LA Bravo.

If you are on FF, you will get a lot of instruction throughout the LA basin such as remain north of I-10 around ONT and a lot of "maintain at or above XXXX" while near many of the surrounding Charlie or Delta airspace, but as long as you are clear of Bravo and are on FF, flying though So Cal is pretty uneventful.

If you are gonna use a transition route, study and learn everything about it. The controllers are great but have little patience with those that are unprepared.

If you are approaching from the east to HHR, you can easily stay under the Bravo...but if you want Bravo experience, head north towards KBUR and use the Mini Route at 2500' which will drop you right into the airports.

I personally love the LA Bravo transitions and would much rather go through it than around it!

Remember..."unfamiliar" is your friend!
 
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Shawn said:
Tony,

If you are looking for Bravo experience, the LA airspace is great as there are several published VFR transition routes and even one SFRA route that you can transition WITHOUT even speaking to ATC through Bravo. If you elect that route however while you are on FF, you will be dumped as you are supposed to self report you position. They are all listed on the LA TAC...which you are required to have on board to use one of the routes. Although I have gotten "Direct to" and vectors in LAX Bravo, it was only after being cleared on a published transition route. There is not too much free flying through LAX B, especially if it is busy. Short of a north to south transition, you will be in an approach path if you are anywhere else in LA Bravo.

If you are on FF, you will get a lot of instruction throughout the LA basin such as remain north of I-10 around ONT and a lot of "maintain at or above XXXX" while near many of the surrounding Charlie or Delta airspace, but as long as you are clear of Bravo and are on FF, flying though So Cal is pretty uneventful.

If you are gonna use a transition route, study and learn everything about it. The controllers are great but have little patience with those that are unprepared.

If you are approaching from the east to HHR, you can easily stay under the Bravo...but if you want Bravo experience, head north towards KBUR and use the Mini Route at 2500' which will drop you right into the airports.

I personally love the LA Bravo transitions and would much rather go through it than around it!

Remember..."unfamiliar" is your friend!
Click to expand...
Good stuff. Glad I asked
 
I flew Oceanside to Santa Monica. I had never flown in LA airspace, was from out of state. I filed a VFR flight plan and got flight following. It all worked fine.

I then flew from Santa Monica to Santa Barbara without flight following or a flight plan.

All went fine.

LA area has a LOT of airports and airspace. But it can be done.
 
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NJP_MAN said:
I have a potential trip this week to the Los Angeles area with a student in his airplane. I will be flying in to either HHR or TOA and it will be VFR. I would file IFR except I want the student to get experience the way he will be flying (in the distant future).

I have a route that looks good but my question is this, If I am on flight following will the SOCAL TRACON vector me around the way they want me to fly or do most people fly their planned VFR route and merely get traffic advisories from control?

I hope my question makes sense if not I will try to reword it.
Click to expand...

Can I go :)
 
evapilotaz said:
Can I go :)
Click to expand...

I cancelled the trip because I got a 135 job. I need to get a few hours in the next couple weeks. Let me know if you want to fly and we can make it happen. Let's do the PHX Class B transition.
 
For those with access to a flight sim setup, I recommend pilotedge.com. Online controllers do a great job of simulating SOCAL, up to and including nastiness when you do something you are not supposed to be doing. You use real world frequencies and procedures. It's a great way to maintain (or work on) radio proficiency and skills, as well as 'rehearsing' all the procedures the OP described.
 
weirdjim said:
So is "student pilot" no matter how many hours you have. I'm a 6000 hour "student" because I hope to never stop learning.

Jim
Click to expand...

Guilty.....I have used this before. I screwed up a PIREP so bad I said, student pilot, let me try this again.
 
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