KTOA arrival/LAX transition question

[DaviatorSF]

I am an experienced VFR pilot but need to fly to Torrance next week from NorCal, which is an airport I’ve never landed at. Normally if I fly down that way I’m going to KSNA and I almost always use the Coastal transition route. I am not a fan of the SFR corridor – it’s like the Wild West with many pilots not communicating, sometimes not following the procedures and altitudes, and I find it stressful.

So I’m trying to figure out the best way to transition to and from Torrance. What I’d like to do is use the Coastal Route, but begin descending for Torrance immediately after passing LAX (the Class B surface area ends and the floor rises to 5,000'.) I’m wondering if this is acceptable and if ATC will be ok clearing me for that route, knowing that I plan to break off of it after leaving the Bravo (maybe even starting my descent earlier if they are able to clear me to do so.)

I’m assuming that ATC will switch me over to KTOA tower right after passing LAX, and that Tower will likely clear me to enter right downwind for 29R or to cross over midfield and enter left downwind for 29L.

I then have the opposite question on departure…. Can I depart and join the coastal transition mid route? Would I need to circle over the field to climb to 5,500 or will they clear me onto the route knowing that I may not having gotten all the way to 5,500 before entering the Bravo? Or would I need to fly southeast to the Vincent Thomas Bridge and then make a 180° turn to enter the coastal route northbound?

I could probably call KTOA tower and ask these questions, I’m sure they deal with this every day, but I always hate to bother busy controllers, so I figured I’d try here. Thanks for any help!

 

[clear_prop]

I've flown into HHR via the Coastal Route several times. Early decent to join the pattern and joining the route while climbing where approved each time. YMMV of course, but as long as you can be above the LAX departures, ATC should be able to work you in.

 

[luvflyin]

I am an experienced VFR pilot but need to fly to Torrance next week from NorCal, which is an airport I’ve never landed at. Normally if I fly down that way I’m going to KSNA and I almost always use the Coastal transition route. I am not a fan of the SFR corridor – it’s like the Wild West with many pilots not communicating, sometimes not following the procedures and altitudes, and I find it stressful.

So I’m trying to figure out the best way to transition to and from Torrance. What I’d like to do is use the Coastal Route, but begin descending for Torrance immediately after passing LAX (the Class B surface area ends and the floor rises to 5,000'.) I’m wondering if this is acceptable and if ATC will be ok clearing me for that route, knowing that I plan to break off of it after leaving the Bravo (maybe even starting my descent earlier if they are able to clear me to do so.)

I’m assuming that ATC will switch me over to KTOA tower right after passing LAX, and that Tower will likely clear me to enter right downwind for 29R or to cross over midfield and enter left downwind for 29L.

I then have the opposite question on departure…. Can I depart and join the coastal transition mid route? Would I need to circle over the field to climb to 5,500 or will they clear me onto the route knowing that I may not having gotten all the way to 5,500 before entering the Bravo? Or would I need to fly southeast to the Vincent Thomas Bridge and then make a 180° turn to enter the coastal route northbound?

I could probably call KTOA tower and ask these questions, I’m sure they deal with this every day, but I always hate to bother busy controllers, so I figured I’d try here. Thanks for any help!

I did it from the North about 10 years ago and had no problem. They let me down right after LAX and terminated me almost right away. Going home I used the SFR.

 

[DaviatorSF]

Thanks to both of you, very helpful. I guess my concern was about them expecting users of the VFR transition to fly the entire transition as published (or not.) The chart supplement is really vague about that. It sounds like it will not be an unusual request to fly the coastal transition and then descend to enter the pattern at TOA without completing the southern part of the "route," or to do the same thing in reverse on the way back.

That airspace is busy enough that I always like to have a good sense of what to expect before I get into it. I remember once, years ago, planning to use the "shoreline route" (predecessor to today's coastal route) and I was almost to the SMO VOR (going south) when ATC called me and said "unable shoreline route, say intentions." That was an unpleasant lesson because I wasn't really prepared with a Plan B, I had to do a couple of 360s outside of the Bravo while I figured out what to do. Now I try to have a well-thought-out Plan A, B, and maybe even C!

Thanks again for the help.

 

[schmookeeg]

Hi neighbor. It seems like the special flight rules corridor is the easy button here. Any particular reason to prefer the coastal route?

I used to bop north from HHR all the time and used that almost exclusively.

 

[DaviatorSF]

Hi neighbor. It seems like the special flight rules corridor is the easy button here. Any particular reason to prefer the coastal route?

I used to bop north from HHR all the time and used that almost exclusively.

I have had bad experiences with the special flight rules corridor. Too many "cowboy" pilots who don't follow the rules, don't announce position, aren't at the right altitude, etc. Last time I used it I got passed by some guy going 200+ knots with maybe 500' of lateral clearance; he didn't say a word on the radio. So I would probably fly 30 miles out of my way before I would use that corridor again; it scares me. I'm sure it's not always like that but my experiences there left me feeling like it was a mid-air waiting to happen.

 

[Shawn]

I have flown the Coastal Route countless times...once past LAX on the south side simply request "lower and direct when able" and almost never had I had to fly all the way to the published exit point. Assuming no traffic conflict ATC will drop you outta Bravo then direct pretty quick.

NB of LAX you need to fly the whole published route due to all the arrivals.

Outbound expect the whole route with Tower and initial SoCal handoff but when it's not busy they have given me vectors when requested to cut across Bravo direct LAX and join the Coastal Route quite a few times...just ask "SoCal, request climbing direct LAX to join the Coastal Route when able"

 

[DaviatorSF]

I have flown the Coastal Route countless times...once past LAX on the south side simply request "lower and direct when able" and almost never had I had to fly all the way to the published exit point. Assuming no traffic conflict ATC will drop you outta Bravo then direct pretty quick.

NB of LAX you need to fly the whole published route due to all the arrivals.

Outbound expect the whole route with Tower and initial SoCal handoff but when it's not busy they have given me vectors when requested to cut across Bravo direct LAX and join the Coastal Route quite a few times...just ask "SoCal, request climbing direct LAX to join the Coastal Route when able"

It worked out just as you said. Southbound, they cleared me "own nav" to KTOA and cleared to descend as soon as I passed LAX.

Northbound, I did a couple of climbing circuits "in the box" over the field, and then asked Norcal if I could fly direct LAX to join the coastal route, and they were happy to oblige.

Appreciate all the info, usually this stuff works just the way it should (and this is one of those cases) – but it's busy airspace and I always like to ask about specific situations I haven't done previously so I'm prepared for anything unusual. It's never fun to be told "unable, say intentions" and not have a Plan B. A long time ago I vowed never to find myself in that situation again!