KSMO / Vector stupidity

[iamtheari]

As mentioned in my prior thread about my trip to Hollywood last June, when we were doing a run-up before departing Santa Monica, the tower told us that something had apparently fallen off of our plane and was being dragged behind us, so we taxied back to the tie-down and looked around. A police officer approached us and apparently someone preflighting another plane on the ramp had reported this anomaly. It turns out that they were seeing the retractable step on our plane. So we did a hot start and departed.

Later on, Vector sent an invoice for two departures, 8 minutes apart. I emailed the address on the invoice next to "Email questions to" to explain the situation and request a corrected invoice. I never heard back other than the auto-response that says they will answer my question within 1 business day. In December, they sent a statement for my past-due invoice. I again wrote an email about the erroneous invoice and explained that I won't pay the wrong one, but would be glad to pay a corrected one if they issue it.

It's my understanding that Vector runs their scam at KSMO and KTEB. Anywhere else to avoid?

 

[Plano Pilot]

Several and adding more. Last month I tried to get a list of airports from them, and they will not give out the list. Below was the unhelpful reply.

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Vector. As a private company, we do not publicize our client list. However, any airports to whom we provide service will list that on the airport’s direct website. In addition, most airports have signs posted regarding landing fees billed on behalf of the airport by Vector PLANEPASS.

Regards,

Kara Schroeder | PLANEPASS® Customer Service Supervisor
Vector Airport Systems | www.vector-us.com
kara@vector-us.com | 888-588-0028 x106 (US)

To view your account or pay online please visit the PLANEPASS® Payment Portal.

---

​

From: <reply-to+1802c2561c66@crm.wix.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2023 2:00 PM
Subject: [Vector US] Contact - new submission

Message Details: Name: Email: Phone: - Message: Where can I find a list of airports that you manage landing fees for? Got suprised at KACT and KLRD with landing fees.

 

[RyanB]

RYY will bill you a landing fee after like 9pm through plane pass. Ask me how I know…

 

[iamtheari]

However, any airports to whom we provide service will list that on the airport’s direct website.

Thanks for that. I found it on the Santa Monica website, buried under a few links, and confirmed it's a landing fee, so even if I had departed twice within 8 minutes I didn't land in between the departures. I'll have my emails handy in case they do something stupid like mail me a court summons. I know more lawyers in Philadelphia (their payment address) than they do.

 

[Half Fast]

and confirmed it's a landing fee,

So there’s no departure fee? Sounds like you shouldn’t owe them anything.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Sign up for a Plane Pass. I am sure they'll share their list of airports.

 

[Plano Pilot]

Sign up for a Plane Pass. I am sure they'll share their list of airports.

I am and they will not.

 

[iamtheari]

Well, they got back to me this time and sent a corrected invoice. All the same, I will probably try not to do business with them again.

 

[schmookeeg]

Well, they got back to me this time and sent a corrected invoice. All the same, I will probably try not to do business with them again.

A choice they make impossible by not disclosing their operating locations.

 

[iamtheari]

A choice they make impossible by not disclosing their operating locations.

Based on their statement that they are identified on every participating airport's website, you could manually crawl airport websites before you fly to see if their name shows up. So ... not technically "impossible." Just obnoxiously tedious.

 

[schmookeeg]

Easier to just call all 19,000 airport managers and ask I'd think. Most of those websites are terribad.

 

[MountainDude]

This issue needs to be addressed by AOPA, but of course they are busy flying their planes and having fun with their $50M annual budget.

 

[PaulMillner]

This issue needs to be addressed by AOPA

Drop 'em a note!

Paul

 

[Palmpilot]

Maybe the practice of forcing people into a financial obligation without prior notice is something that a class-action suit could solve.

 

[mr_happyland]

KTOA (Torrance) will soon be using Vector for collecting landing fees.

 

[luvflyin]

As mentioned in my prior thread about my trip to Hollywood last June, when we were doing a run-up before departing Santa Monica, the tower told us that something had apparently fallen off of our plane and was being dragged behind us, so we taxied back to the tie-down and looked around. A police officer approached us and apparently someone preflighting another plane on the ramp had reported this anomaly. It turns out that they were seeing the retractable step on our plane. So we did a hot start and departed.

Later on, Vector sent an invoice for two departures, 8 minutes apart. I emailed the address on the invoice next to "Email questions to" to explain the situation and request a corrected invoice. I never heard back other than the auto-response that says they will answer my question within 1 business day. In December, they sent a statement for my past-due invoice. I again wrote an email about the erroneous invoice and explained that I won't pay the wrong one, but would be glad to pay a corrected one if they issue it.

It's my understanding that Vector runs their scam at KSMO and KTEB. Anywhere else to avoid?

So there’s some company called Vector? After seeing the Title of the thread I was all spooled up to get into an all kinds of Controllers Vectoring pilots rules n regulations discussion. As it turns out it’s just a pound sand, I ain’t ‘payin, your move’, thang.

 

[Getonit]

Do they actually do anything to collect? Would they put a lien on your airplane? I would tell them to stuff it. I am getting an invoice for landing fees 18 months after I flew in. I dont think they can collect.

 

[iamtheari]

So there’s some company called Vector? After seeing the Title of the thread I was all spooled up to get into an all kinds of Controllers Vectoring pilots rules n regulations discussion. As it turns out it’s just a pound sand, I ain’t ‘payin, your move’, thang.

Good point, sorry for the confusing title. If my coffee inspires a better one, I'll update it. Meanwhile, yes, it's a company that apparently uses some kind of automation (ADS-B?) and the FAA aircraft registry to send bills for landing fees. And they managed to count my having started the engine and transponder twice that day as two departures.

Do they actually do anything to collect? Would they put a lien on your airplane? I would tell them to stuff it. I am getting an invoice for landing fees 18 months after I flew in. I dont think they can collect.

State law governs liens, but my limited survey has not come across any states that allow a lien to be placed on an aircraft for unpaid landing fees that have not been reduced to a court judgment. But court judgments are liens against all your property in every state as far as I know, and collection companies are great at buying false debts and turning them into real judgments, so in this instance, once they revised my invoice, I paid off the risk of them becoming a greater thorn in my side than a piece of mail.

 

[luvflyin]

Good point, sorry for the confusing title. If my coffee inspires a better one, I'll update it. Meanwhile, yes, it's a company that apparently uses some kind of automation (ADS-B?) and the FAA aircraft registry to send bills for landing fees. And they managed to count my having started the engine and transponder twice that day as two departures.


State law governs liens, but my limited survey has not come across any states that allow a lien to be placed on an aircraft for unpaid landing fees that have not been reduced to a court judgment. But court judgments are liens against all your property in every state as far as I know, and collection companies are great at buying false debts and turning them into real judgments, so in this instance, once they revised my invoice, I paid off the risk of them becoming a greater thorn in my side than a piece of mail.

Nah, no need to change it. I googled ‘list of airports that have vector billing.’ Couldn’t find that but there were a lot of hits on airports that do.

 

[Zeldman]

Do they actually do anything to collect? Would they put a lien on your airplane?

Airplane: Podunk tower, I have lost my engine(s) and need to land now. We are declaring triple dog* emergency.!!

Tower: Sorry buddy, you still owe us for the last 3 landing fees. Good luck...

I am thinking any non-payment would be between airport management and airplane owner.



*Triple dog emergency... all engine(s) failed, wings falling off and passengers have containers that hold more than 3 ounces of liquid in their carry on luggage...