King Schools Get It Wrong

HPNPilot1200

HPNPilot1200

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Okay, I'll admit it...it is indeed a pet peeve of mine. But you would think the industry setting King scholars would want to send the most accurate and professional information available in today's market. [See attachment]

I've never heard of a private pilot rating, but maybe it's something new the FAA is trying out. Perhaps it's an add-on rating to your yellow student pilot certificate? When I passed the checkride, I received a private pilot certificate.

Also, the instrument written was such a piece of cake using Gleim test prep, I have a hard time believing the IR written is the most problematic obstacle in training. Just my opinion.

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I don't care what you say, Martha is hot!;)
 
The Kings probably put that Easter Egg in thier template just for sharpies like you.

:)


The IR written and flight test should be the most difficult of all certificate/rating tests, IMHO. I think the main reason it's more difficult is that the expected level of precison, knowledge, and judgement are significantly greater than what is expected for the PP.

I'm convinced nearly anybody who can competently drive a car has the mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP and fly a modern light airplane.

I'm not yet convinced that's the case for the IR.
 
dmccormack said:
The Kings probably put that Easter Egg in thier template just for sharpies like you.

:)


The IR written and flight test should be the most difficult of all certificate/rating tests, IMHO. I think the main reason it's more difficult is that the expected level of precison, knowledge, and judgement are significantly greater than what is expected for the PP.

I'm convinced nearly anybody who can competently drive a car has the mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP and fly a modern light airplane.

I'm not yet convinced that's the case for the IR.
Click to expand...

The letter points out that the knowledge exam (written) is the most problematic obstacle pilots ever have to face (not the oral and practical exams). The written is a piece of cake, I'm sure the other portions of the exam are more difficult for the most part.
 
You're nit pickin' Jason... :)

But, regarding the written, you're right. I've seen it passed with strictly rote memory and absolutely no understanding of the questions asked.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
The letter points out that the knowledge exam (written) is the most problematic obstacle pilots ever have to face (not the oral and practical exams). The written is a piece of cake, I'm sure the other portions of the exam are more difficult for the most part.
Click to expand...

Have you considered that they are trying to sell something?

I agree with Ken -- any FAA test can be aced if you read through the questions enough times using a test prep book.

All that matters when you fly is whether you actually understand.
 
dmccormack said:
Have you considered that they are trying to sell something?

I agree with Ken -- any FAA test can be aced if you read through the questions enough times using a test prep book.

All that matters when you fly is whether you actually understand.
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Absolutely, that's why I received the letter...they're trying to sell something to me. The thing is, I thought the Kings were better than typical marketers outside the aviation industry that try to sell you something under false pretense or misinformation. The statement they made is completely opinion-based and is typical of many advertisement, but not what I would have expected from professional aviation instructors. Lay the facts out straight and find another more creative, yet truthful way to market your ground school products.

</rant> :D
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Absolutely, that's why I received the letter...they're trying to sell something to me. The thing is, I thought the Kings were better than typical marketers outside the aviation industry that try to sell you something under false pretense or misinformation. The statement they made is completely opinion-based and is typical of many advertisement, but not what I would have expected from professional aviation instructors. Lay the facts out straight and find another more creative, yet truthful way to market your ground school products.
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Hunh? Have you seen a King ad in an aviation magazine?

ACE YOUR FAA EXAM! GUARANTEED!!

That's not marketing? Please define "Ace."

Right -- the meaning is intentionally vague to cover them if you score 86.

The King videos, etc are helpful for many, many pilots in preapring for all sorst of ratings/certificates. They've produced thousands of hours of good content, marketing materials, support materials -- the works.

You caught a boo boo made by somebody down in the Direct Mail department.

:eek:Oops.

Seriously -- I've never met them, but I've used some of thier material and it's been helpful, enlightening, and yes, corny.

But John and Martha are both pilots and have been a long time -- they walk the walk, have a good business, and do a lot of good for alot of pilots.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. That's the American Way!
 
Where's Spike when you need him to make a funny joke about.....now? I understand where you're coming from though, Dan. Though I intended my post(s) to be a little less serious than I think you interpreted them. But I found the letter sort of humorous when I read it, including the initial mistake.
 
Jason, you're starting to sound like an old curmudgeon!!! :D
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Where's Spike when you need him to make a funny joke about.....now? I understand where you're coming from though, Dan. Though I intended my post(s) to be a little less serious than I think you interpreted them. But I found the letter sort of humorous when I read it, including the initial mistake.
Click to expand...

Then you should have started your post, "John and Martha walk into a bar..."


:cheerswine:
 
dmccormack said:
I'm convinced nearly anybody who can competently drive a car has the mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP and fly a modern light airplane.
Click to expand...
Not quite. Go / No Go / Divert decisions require judgment and experience on a long VFR cross country. Often such decisions are more difficult VFR and would be easier if you could just file. A hell of a lot more thinking then just taking the 'REST AREA' exit that appears every 40 minutes.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm convinced nearly anybody who can competently drive a car has the mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP and fly a modern light airplane.
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Look at the last 20 Cirrus accidents in the NTSB database and tell me if you still think so.
 
jesse said:
Not quite. Go / No Go / Divert decisions require judgment and experience on a long VFR cross country. Often such decisions are more difficult VFR and would be easier if you could just file. A hell of a lot more thinking then just taking the 'REST AREA' exit that appears every 40 minutes.
Click to expand...

bbchien said:
Look at the last 20 Cirrus accidents in the NTSB database and tell me if you still think so.
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Agreed. Let's just say I know of a few who have never so much as driven a vehicle of any kind. Now, they are learning to fly.

How does one go from no practical understanding of speed and inertia and suddenly start learning to fly?

In so many Cirrus accidents, particularly in IMC, they failed to learn the concept and importance of "small corrections" then end up over-correcting.
 
dmccormack said:
I'm convinced nearly anybody who can competently drive a car has the mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP and fly a modern light airplane.
Click to expand...

jesse said:
Not quite. Go / No Go / Divert decisions require judgment and experience on a long VFR cross country. Often such decisions are more difficult VFR and would be easier if you could just file. A hell of a lot more thinking then just taking the 'REST AREA' exit that appears every 40 minutes.
Click to expand...
I think I'd agree with Dan if he said "mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP certificate and drive a modern light airplane." It's one thing to get the mechanics down, and I agree that it is doable for most of these people. As Jesse and others indicate, it's the ADM that makes a person a pilot and not a driver.
 
dmccormack said:
Have you considered that they are trying to sell something?

I agree with Ken -- any FAA test can be aced if you read through the questions enough times using a test prep book.

All that matters when you fly is whether you actually understand.
Click to expand...
Proof here. :yes:
 
gprellwitz said:
I think I'd agree with Dan if he said "mental and hand-eye coordination skills to earn a PP certificate and drive a modern light airplane." It's one thing to get the mechanics down, and I agree that it is doable for most of these people. As Jesse and others indicate, it's the ADM that makes a person a pilot and not a driver.
Click to expand...

By that definition, few Private Pilots are pilots the moment they pass the checkride. Now I think back to my piloting level then and wonder "How did I stay in the air as little as I knew??"

Judgement comes from experience, and we all know experience results from surviving bad judgement.

B)

Obviously there are other factors -- desire, time, mental acuity, previous exposure, ad infinitum.

But the argument that pilots are somehow Uber-Folk won't wash with me -- Have you looked around an airport? Or an FBO lounge?

Pilots delude themselves and do no service to GA when they pretend flying requires super powers. Sure we can all be sharper, smarter, more coordinated, etc.

But given a willing student of average abilities, and instructor of slightly above average abilities, no set limits on time, and a decent 2 or 4 seat trainer with no unusual habits -- I'll stand by my claim that if a person has the ability to drive, he/she will be able to fly.

I didn't say he/she wil be doing 6 G maneuevers, flying hard IMC, or mastering a Technically Advanced Aircraft (and the Cirrus falls in this category). I said he/she can be taught to fly. And once that happens, the transition to Real Pilot (Whatever that is) is completely up to him/her.
 
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I'd tend to agree with Dan. Those people in the Cirrus wrecks were obviously capable of flying the plane and passing their PP, because they did. Dan made no mention about doing any of these things well, hence the wrecks.

Jason, I have the Gleim software as well, plus I've read the FAA published instrument flight manual, and of course my instrument instructor gives me no shortage of knowledge. While I wouldn't call this whole knowledge endeavor a piece of cake (there is so much to learn), it is certainly not as difficult as I expected it to be given what most people told me. I feel like it's taking me a while to learn, but I'm also trying to make sure I understand the practical aspect of what they're teaching me, not just memorizing the answers to the questions. I'm telling people that if you take it seriously and work on it heavily (which I have been), it's roughly equivalent to a college level course in terms of time required, and depending on the subject matter overall mental effort. Of course, most of my college courses weren't too difficult for me... :)

There's one line I really don't like from that King marketing thing, though:

With your instrument rating you could take weekend trips to remote locations and count on being back on schedule
Click to expand...

Really? Even with icing conditions in winter, and thunderstorms in summer? Obviously the instrument ticket has a lot of advantages in many cases increases the number of times you can make trips vs. having to stay on the ground, but that seems a little irresponsible to me to say that. I understand their point, but I could see some family of a dead instrument pilot getting a lawyer to sue the Kings. Maybe I'm just too paranoid about how litigious this society has become, and also have a general hatred for marketing. :yes:
 
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My experience based on a couple of years of nearly full time IR instructing is that IR written test scores and the possession of sufficient knowledge to operate safely and properly in the IFR system are two entirely different things. I've seen folks with test scores in the 70's who were smart and savvy about real IFR operations, and ones with scores in the 90's who didn't know a vector from a Victor.

And Martha puts me to sleep. Gimme a book by Bob Gardner or the late Bill Kershner any time.
 
Ron Levy said:
My experience based on a couple of years of nearly full time IR instructing is that IR written test scores and the possession of sufficient knowledge to operate safely and properly in the IFR system are two entirely different things. I've seen folks with test scores in the 70's who were smart and savvy about real IFR operations, and ones with scores in the 90's who didn't know a vector from a Victor.

And Martha puts me to sleep. Gimme a book by Bob Gardner or the late Bill Kershner any time.
Click to expand...

FWIW, early in my training, I didn't "get" Bill Kershner. Later on, after some experience, I really came to appreciate his style and the information he presented. I don't have Bob Gardner's books but I need to add them to my library.

As far as scores -- I started with the "gotta ace this one" approach -- and after a while realized that while I could ace the practice tests, I didn't understand why they asked that question of why is it was even important.

At that point I decided -- since my goal was to be a CFI/II -- I would not take a test until I could explain each question and answer, period.

I used that approach for IR, COMM, CFI, and AGI, and I think the few I've missed were more issue with wording and the FAA's choice of "right" answer.

The satisfaction of being able to mentally argue with the test writers meant I didn't sweat a grade, and actually mastered the material, which, IMHO, is far more important than some number on a form.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Really? Even with icing conditions in winter, and thunderstorms in summer? Obviously the instrument ticket has a lot of advantages in many cases increases the number of times you can make trips vs. having to stay on the ground, but that seems a little irresponsible to me to say that. I understand their point, but I could see some family of a dead instrument pilot getting a lawyer to sue the Kings. Maybe I'm just too paranoid about how litigious this society has become, and also have a general hatred for marketing. :yes:
Click to expand...

In small print there may something about "You can stick to schedule most times if you fly a known-ice, turbine, radar and on-board weather equipped cabin-class Multiengine airplane....."

:D
 
dmccormack said:
The satisfaction of being able to mentally argue with the test writers meant I didn't sweat a grade, and actually mastered the material, which, IMHO, is far more important than some number on a form.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree completely... the best grade is not necessarily that you get a perfect score, but that you can have a discussion with your instructor/the DE/whoever about the questions.

In small print there may something about "You can stick to schedule most times if you fly a known-ice, turbine, radar and on-board weather equipped cabin-class Multiengine airplane....."
Click to expand...

That's more my point. An instrument rating and a 152 is a whole lot different than an instrument rating and a King Air. When you get to a certain level, if you make a no-go it probably has more to do with your own personal comfort level and proficiency than worrying about the plane's capabilities.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's more my point. An instrument rating and a 152 is a whole lot different than an instrument rating and a King Air. When you get to a certain level, if you make a no-go it probably has more to do with your own personal comfort level and proficiency than worrying about the plane's capabilities.
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Yep... and a King Air would do quite nicely!

:yes:
 
Yeah, and look at all the free publicity it got them! They'll probably start making more mistakes if this keeps up. ;-)
 
I met Martha and Mr. King two years ago at OshKosh. They were very polite and friendly. I do admire her for her efforts in a majority-male hobby.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Really? Even with icing conditions in winter, and thunderstorms in summer? Obviously the instrument ticket has a lot of advantages in many cases increases the number of times you can make trips vs. having to stay on the ground, but that seems a little irresponsible to me to say that. I understand their point, but I could see some family of a dead instrument pilot getting a lawyer to sue the Kings. Maybe I'm just too paranoid about how litigious this society has become, and also have a general hatred for marketing. :yes:
Click to expand...

What Martha and Co. don't teach you is how to use your eyes and work with ATC to find your way through lines of storms when you're in and through clouds. On this x-country I just got back from I learned volumes about getting around weather while in the soup. We flew through three fronts on the first leg alone (bohica!) and flew through just about everything we were capable of flying through. However, I had an experienced airline pilot with a ton of actual and experience with this in the left seat. It's how comfortable you are and your limitations. By the second leg I was doing it without his help. You become less and less limited the more you do.
 
Danos said:
What Martha and Co. don't teach you is how to use your eyes and work with ATC to find your way through lines of storms when you're in and through clouds. On this x-country I just got back from I learned volumes about getting around weather while in the soup. We flew through three fronts on the first leg alone (bohica!) and flew through just about everything we were capable of flying through. However, I had an experienced airline pilot with a ton of actual and experience with this in the left seat. It's how comfortable you are and your limitations. By the second leg I was doing it without his help. You become less and less limited the more you do.
Click to expand...

And NO WHERE do they tell you how to hold it for three hours until you reach your destination...:(

Incredible they should be so negligent...
 
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