King Air down on I-94

[flyingcheesehead]

This is one of those "I'm not too surprised" accidents, not due to the pilot (dunno who it was), but due to the situation.

There's a King Air 90 used at Sylvania airport by Skydive Midwest. This is a very small airport - Single paved runway of 2,272 x 38 feet. I've watched the plane take off, and the wheels would leave the ground within the last hundred feet or so.

If you look at it on Google Maps you can see some skydivers just in the process of landing, and you can see the King Air already being fueled up on the ramp - They definitely beat the divers down, I flew past and watched them falling out of the sky just about 3 weeks ago.

Tonight, it appears that they landed to the east and didn't stop in time - They skidded across the frontage road and onto I-94 (this is between Milwaukee and Chicago). The props are all bent up and the plane was on its belly. Pilot was uninjured, passenger (wha? passenger on a landing skydive plane? ) was injured but no information as to the extent.

So... Since speculation is what we do best, I'm guessing that either they ended up coming in too fast and being unable to stop, or geared it up (and thus no brakes or reverse thrust).

Dave, if you see this thread - How much runway does a KA 90 need to stop normally? They have reverse thrust, right? If an engine were to fail upon landing and remove that option, then how much runway would be needed for a safe landing?

 

[wabower]

For B-90 (most jump planes are old) about 1,600' for 7k# wt, no wind. Reversers aren't allowed for landing distance calculations.

This is one of those "I'm not too surprised" accidents, not due to the pilot (dunno who it was), but due to the situation.

There's a King Air 90 used at Sylvania airport by Skydive Midwest. This is a very small airport - Single paved runway of 2,272 x 38 feet. I've watched the plane take off, and the wheels would leave the ground within the last hundred feet or so.

If you look at it on Google Maps you can see some skydivers just in the process of landing, and you can see the King Air already being fueled up on the ramp - They definitely beat the divers down, I flew past and watched them falling out of the sky just about 3 weeks ago.

Tonight, it appears that they landed to the east and didn't stop in time - They skidded across the frontage road and onto I-94 (this is between Milwaukee and Chicago). The props are all bent up and the plane was on its belly. Pilot was uninjured, passenger (wha? passenger on a landing skydive plane? ) was injured but no information as to the extent.

So... Since speculation is what we do best, I'm guessing that either they ended up coming in too fast and being unable to stop, or geared it up (and thus no brakes or reverse thrust).

Dave, if you see this thread - How much runway does a KA 90 need to stop normally? They have reverse thrust, right? If an engine were to fail upon landing and remove that option, then how much runway would be needed for a safe landing?

 

[masloki]

Best reporting and photos brought from our friends across the pond, covering a crash in Racine, WI. Weird!

Looks like one prop is curled while the other has a straight blade with another clearly bent back, stopped before impact. Passenger looks like she was pulled along with the chair from the plane, and she did not have a parachute on.

 

[Ted]

The picture I saw looks like a gear up landing. N821DA with a skull and crossbones on the tail, and you can see SkydiveMidwest.com on the strakes.

 

[wabower]

Appears to be a crew seat.

Best reporting and photos brought from our friends across the pond, covering a crash in Racine, WI. Weird!

Looks like one prop is curled while the other has a straight blade with another clearly bent back, stopped before impact. Passenger looks like she was pulled along with the chair from the plane, and she did not have a parachute on.

 

[ScottM]

I have landed my Cherokee at Sylvania, small runway, makes 6Y9 O'Hare like, once for Go Fly America. I landed to the west that day and it was fun coming in low over the Interstate or as the Racinians would call it 'The I.'

As for the pax question, yep they sometimes have riders. I had several friends who like being meat puppets. I would sometime catch a ride on the jump plane and stay on board after the jumpers left. It was fun.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

What Wayne said. I have just over 125 flying ours in the C90 know (plus sim time) and am just getting he hang of it. I would think one could land in under 1,000 feet with prop reverse if set up properly, but it can be hard on the props; especially, on an unimproved field or one where FOD isn't systematically cleaned.

Sounds like same old, same old: didn't get the gear down or came in fast and high. I just don't know why folks are so committed to land when they don't get set up properly. We used to do high overhead approaches in the military for several reasons. When approaching a new field, I was never committed to land until I turned off the runway. Slight exaggeration, but pretty well willing to go around for any reason unless that didn't make sense.

Many times, when going into a new or challenging field, I'd get set up on final and was prepared to land if everything looked right on short final, but was planning on doing a low pass and coming back if everything wasn't just right.

Guess we'll read about it, but for those that have been around for awhile, not much new is causing accidents: almost all replays of previous errs.

Best,

Dave

 

[Jay Honeck]

I have landed my Cherokee at Sylvania, small runway, makes 6Y9 O'Hare like, once for Go Fly America. I landed to the west that day and it was fun coming in low over the Interstate or as the Racinians would call it 'The I.'

As for the pax question, yep they sometimes have riders. I had several friends who like being meat puppets. I would sometime catch a ride on the jump plane and stay on board after the jumpers left. It was fun.

I was based at Sylvania for several years, and I was incredulous when I first heard they were using turbine twins for jump planes there a couple of years ago. Charlie 89 is a very small 2300' strip (when I was there the pavement was exactly 30' wide, the wingspan of a Cherokee), with NO margin for error when landing on Rwy 9, since it terminates into one of the busiest freeways in the nation.

Even when landing on Rwy 27, your glide slope has to be close to perfect, as the poor gal flying our favorite rental Cherokee discovered when she clipped the top of a semi on I-94 and flipped into the ditch between the frontage road and the end of the runway. She did not survive.

When I was there (circa 1997) the biggest plane we ever saw land there regularly was a Twin Comanche, and people would make a point to watch him land, especially in winter.

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I was based at Sylvania for several years, and I was incredulous when I first heard they were using turbine twins for jump planes there a couple of years ago. Charlie 89 is a very small 2300' strip (when I was there the pavement was exactly 30' wide, the wingspan of a Cherokee), with NO margin for error when landing on Rwy 9, since it terminates into one of the busiest freeways in the nation.

Even when landing on Rwy 27, your glide slope has to be close to perfect, as the poor gal flying our favorite rental Cherokee discovered when she clipped the top of a semi on I-94 and flipped into the ditch between the frontage road and the end of the runway. She did not survive.

When I was there (circa 1997) the biggest plane we ever saw land there regularly was a Twin Comanche, and people would make a point to watch him land, especially in winter.

Watching that King Air take off and land was definitely a spectacle, whenever they were operating there were pilots standing outside watching.

 

[wabower]

Have they determined if the cause was failure to extend the gear?

Watching that King Air take off and land was definitely a spectacle, whenever they were operating there were pilots standing outside watching.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Have they determined if the cause was failure to extend the gear?

Sounds like the gear was extended, since it departed the airframe at some point during the "landing".

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Odd incident. If they had been unfamiliar with the field, perhaps, but I would guess the crew had a few cycles there. Complacency, or some as yet undisclosed mechanical failure?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Odd incident. If they had been unfamiliar with the field, perhaps, but I would guess the crew had a few cycles there. Complacency, or some as yet undisclosed mechanical failure?

The news said mechanical failure, the nature of which I haven't heard. Of course, if I had geared up or overshot, I'd make sure the news was saying mechanical failure too.

 

[weilke]

Have they determined if the cause was failure to extend the gear?

Could the gear be located somewhere in the ditch that separates the runway from the interstate ?

Oops, there it is:

Hotlinked from the Journal Times.com

 

[wabower]

Dunno. Where they aren't is more apparent than where they are.

Could the gear be located somewhere in the ditch that separates the runway from the interstate ?

 

[Sam D]

The news said mechanical failure, the nature of which I haven't heard. Of course, if I had geared up or overshot, I'd make sure the news was saying mechanical failure too.

Good idea. I'm going to claim "electrical problem" -- even if its the electrons in my brain!

 

[Dave Siciliano]

The owner of the aircraft and his girlfriend used the plane that night for whatever reason. There was a copilot seat installed for the passenger. Upon landing and throwing the engines into reverse, one of the prop governers failed to put one of the props into beta...so, you have both engines spooling up, one in reverse and the other in forward on a short, wet runway. Great pilot, well maintained plane, presented with a terrible situation. I know the pilot and I've flown the plane, both are stellar.

Oh boy! That'd sure be a game changer. The short, narrow, wet runway sure didn't leave much room for any issues. Hope all are well. Best, Dave

 

[Threefingeredjack]

The owner of the aircraft and his girlfriend used the plane that night for whatever reason. There was a copilot seat installed for the passenger. Upon landing and throwing the engines into reverse, one of the prop governers failed to put one of the props into beta...so, you have both engines spooling up, one in reverse and the other in forward on a short, wet runway. Great pilot, well maintained plane, presented with a terrible situation. I know the pilot and I've flown the plane, both are stellar.

Considering the situation it looks as if they got the best outcome possible from a nearly unwinnable scenario.

 

[fastair5]

I mispoke...just heard it was due to hydroplaning. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the NTSB finds out

 

[wabower]

Good to hear the revised explanation. The other one didn't make sense.

I mispoke...just heard it was due to hydroplaning. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the NTSB finds out

 

[weilke]

There is a picture from earlier this year of this plane being towed back to the airport after it ended with fuel in the wrong tanks.

Skydivers

 

[Jay Honeck]

There is a picture from earlier this year of this plane being towed back to the airport after it ended with fuel in the wrong tanks.

Skydivers

I asked a buddy of mine who instructs in that part of SE Wisconsin to comment on the weather at the time of the incident. Here's what he said:

"I was driving on the I southbound out of KUES. (Waukesha) It was raining pretty good. Suspect 3-400' ceilings and maybe 1/2 to 3/4 mile vis. Don't know why he didn't just go into KENW (Kenosha) or KRAC (Racine)?"

(Note: Both are larger metro airports with ILS and long runways. Both are ~10 miles away.)

400' ceilings, in rain, landing a KingAir on a 2300' strip? You would have to be darned near perfect to make that work.

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[Jay Honeck]

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[weilke]

400' ceilings, in rain, landing a KingAir on a 2300' strip? You would have to be darned near perfect to make that work.

If you land 20 times/day on the same airport for 10 years, you may start to think that you ARE perfect.

This is like the fish-spotter in Louisiana who had flown 26000hrs VFR out of the same airport. One day he had a fog-bank off the end of the runway, flies into the fog and survived for all of 35 seconds.

The way the weather data and the scene photos look, this plane got wrecked over a $30 cab ride.