KDVT to KVGT (North Las Vegas)

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by CC268, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Might be flying to North Las Vegas this weekend and wanted to see what you guys recommend in terms of routing, specifically around the Las Vegas Class B. I will be on Flight Following if possible. I am very familiar with Phoenix Class B and do the VFR transition 3-4 times a week right now, but not sure what the best way might be for navigating the Class B at Vegas.

    Thanks.

    Current route I am thinking I will take: KDVT EED 1L4 KVGT
    Very similar to the route I take to Lake Havasu. All the way up to Lake Alamo there is a very large dirt road that could be used to land on in case of an engine failure. After Lake Alamo until the Needles VOR it is desert, so not many great choices. However, after that stretch I am basically hopping from airport to airport or over a major road. Seems like a good route. Will also set me up well for either the Rocks or Cortez transition or even just ducking under the Bravo shelf to the west.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  2. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    It's been about 3 years, but LAS was not all that friendly and they'll want to stick you on either the Cortez or Rocks VFR transition route. Brief both routes thoroughly and you should be fine.

    Forgot... it you're on the Cortez it's good to know that Cortez means the El Cortez hotel and where it says Spaghetti Bowl that is a prominent highway interchange and is the common name for it in the local road traffic reports. might want to google earth it so you'll understand the name.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  3. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I went VFR to Las Vegas once in a C-206. I didn't know the transponder was not working until the nice lady ATC yelled at me and let me know in very specific words that I was not a good pilot for flying with an inoperative transponder. She then informed me in a loud and obnoxious voice that "you will NOT be able to leave the airport with that airplane until you get that transponder fixed."

    She was wrong. A quick call to the tower and the nice tower people set it up for me to leave.

    Leaving Las Vegas the controllers were very pleasant and very helpful. I haven't been there recently but the other times I have gone to Las Vegas (IFR and VFR) my experience with the controllers was very pleasant.
     
  4. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Always found Vegas controllers to be quite friendly and accommodating. Never had a problem getting a Bravo clearance flying into VGT or just flying my Comanche into LAS, from the SoCal area.
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Flew a turbo arrow in KLAS a few times (VFR), no biggie really, just lots of fees and expensive gas.
     
  6. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    So taking off from KVGT (if taking off to the southeast you are almost immediately in the KVGT Class B (surface to 10,000). Best thing would be to call up Vegas Approach and request flight following and bravo transition to the southeast correct?

    I will look up those Cortex and Rocks VFR transitions later today
     
  7. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You mean KLAS class B, but ask for FF (vfr advisories) when you call up clearance delivery before you taxi. Tell them your planned route. If the tower is closed, from Airnav.com, " FOR CD WHEN ATCT IS CLSD CTC LAS APCH AT 725-200-4432" CD may give you departure headings/altitudes through the Bravo.
     
  8. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Whoops yes I meant KLAS Class B. So I would call up CD and not Ground even though I am VFR? The tower will definitely be open when I arrive and when I depart. Thanks for the help.
     
  9. Walboy

    Walboy Line Up and Wait

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    I haven't looked, but I would bet there are VFR flyways on the back of the Las Vegas TAC. Seems like a good starting point.
     
  10. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

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    Will all depend on what runways they are landing at LAS. My last flight in from the east I came in just south of the Grand Canyon SFRA then they vectored me pretty much direct to VGT right through Bravo under the LAS approach path. Easy peasy.

    Individual results may vary.
     
  11. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    Inbound from DVT to VGT, two options, come in south around Jean, 20nm south of McCarran LAS, go west around the Class B below the 7k and 5k shelves to Red Rocks, pick up the VGT ATIS near Blue Diamond. Duck under the 4500ft shelf near red rocks and report to VGT twr “Red Rocks with ATIS letter.” Expect a right base to 12R.

    Option 2, stay east and head north to Gypsm reporting point, call approach near there and request transition through the B to VGT. You are talking to Nell’s AFB military controllers and not FAA controllers. Expect either right over the top of Nellis to VGT, or routed toward the speedway and then to VGT. If VGT tower has a lot of traffic in the training pattern for 12L, expect speedway to Sante Fe and straight in to 12R.

    Outbound, when you call ground control at VGT for taxi, request east departure with Class B. They will get you squawk code and recommended heading after departure of about 340, Nellis approach on 135.1. Tower will get you started on the heading depending on departure runway and then instructions to call departure. Nellis approach will get you across their Class B and on your way.

    If VGT is on the 30L/R, coming over Nellis, expect a quick descent, coming from Red Rock, left base to 30L.

    It is very difficult to get transition through the Class B from Boulder City, across McCarran and in to VGT. Depending on runway in use at LAS, you will be kept at 5500 or higher, approach end Rwy26L, stratosphere at 3500 direct VGT. If McCarran is using Rwy 1/19 at all, all bets are off. N/S runways at LAS also kills the Cortez arrival.
     
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  12. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Thanks for the help. What is going to make this maybe a bit more interesting is that I am flying in for the Nellis AFB Airshow which is Saturday and Sunday, so there will be a TFR of course. Interestingly enough I will likely be departing KVGT right at the end of the Thunderbird's performance lol (planning to depart around 3:00 or 3:30). So I don't think your Option 2 will be viable.

    I am glad you mentioned Boulder City, because that is the route I was going to take. I guess I won't do that.

    Have to admit I am a little nervous about this flight. This Bravo seems way worse than PHX B which I am very familiar with. PHX B is so simple.
     
  13. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Current route I am thinking I will take: KDVT EED 1L4 KVGT
    Very similar to the route I take to Lake Havasu. All the way up to Lake Alamo there is a very large dirt road that could be used to land on in case of an engine failure. After Lake Alamo until the Needles VOR it is desert, so not many great choices. However, after that stretch I am basically hopping from airport to airport or over a major road. Seems like a good route. Will also set me up well for either the Rocks or Cortez transition or even just ducking under the Bravo shelf to the west.
     
  14. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why try so hard to avoid the Class B? It is really not that big of a deal, and the controllers have been great every time I've transitioned thru.
     
  15. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    I'm not? Never said I was. Just said I will set my route up so that if I do have to avoid it I can do so easily.
     
  16. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    On that route your best bet might be Needles, Jean (0L7), then west side to the Blue Diamond reporting VFR reporting point, then Red Rocks and to VGT. No one really flies the Red Rocks arrival, approach control will not let you fly it in Class B airspat, it is in the face of departures, so you have to be below Class B anyway.

    The TFR for the Friday practice day “active duty free show day” has already been posted. So the Cortez arrival is blocked.
     
  17. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    I will becoming in on Sunday. Not sure how this is going to turn out but I will figure it out.
     
  18. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Interesting how all the runways are left traffic at KVGT, figured they would have some right traffic for the parallel runways
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  19. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    They will assign right traffic if needed, coming in from Red Rock, expect right base to 12R.
    Traffic staying in the traffic pattern is given 12L with left traffic or 30R with right traffic.

    If you are a full stop, expect 12R/30L. It’s closer to parking and a full stop therefore does not have to stop and wait to cross the other runway.
     
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  20. mtnflyr

    mtnflyr Pre-Flight

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    ok call me stupid...

    but i was thinking about flying to Vegas to get a burger and gamble in the terminal (of course cash out at 0.01 for the memory). but i thought Vegas was class C?..obviously the charts say otherwise...did it change recently? or am i losing my mind? that freaks me out a bit since my dad had Alzheimers and he slowly lost it. it was so difficult to watch.. the slow process of him not remembering things was so difficult you know what i mean? it was like when my dad couldn't remember stuff. i think they called it Alzheimers. man i hope i dont have to deal with that.
     
  21. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Ahh interesting thanks for the tips i will remember that
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    Advertising it with an RP on the sectional would only matter when the Tower is closed. Maybe they turn the Runway lights off to one of the runways when they go home.
     
  23. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Ahh good point
     
  24. drtcom

    drtcom Filing Flight Plan

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    It's been awhile since I flew into VGT but the only problem I had was that they always kept me at a high altitude, relative to the pattern altitude, and when they turned me over to tower, I had to do a fast descent to get down without flying a very long downwind. With a Mooney, it required dropping fast, which the Mooney doesn't like to do. Most high wing and other low wing a/c seem to come down better than the Mooney. If you descend, it wants to speed up and it is hard to keep the engine temp in the green if you drop power. Just saying you might be high when ATC turns you over to tower so be prepared. Don't know if they are still doing that also.
     
  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I got the direct over the top of Nellis and a hand off to the tower for a chop and drop to 30R last time I was at VGT.

    But with an airshow they won’t be doing that, so... YMMV.
     
  26. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    It’s been Class B since before I moved here in 1995.
     
  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Class B, Class C, hell I thought they were TCAs and TRSAs. :confused: :)
     
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  28. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Bump -- @CC268

    Saw the pics from Nellis... very nice.

    Now tell us how the flight went so we know if any of our advice was worthwhile. :)
     
  29. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    It was smooth sailing honestly. My route was KDVT EED KVGT. Unfortunately because of my route and altitudes (6500 & 7500) I couldn't get Flight Following for most the flight. PHX Approach said Albuquerque Center needs at least 8500 for radar. LAS Center needed 8000 I believe. The winds were not favoring us at that altitude so I stayed at 6500 there and 7500 on the way back. But it wasn't a big deal in this case as the route I took isn't exactly "high traffic". I have flown to Havasu several times, so I am very familiar with flying through the MOAs. They were not active on Sunday. The terrain on the whole route was actually quite good. There is a very large dirt road (Alamo road) that runs straight to Alamo Lake. The only spot on the entire flight that has unforgiving terrain (not any good places to put down) is right after Alamo Lake until you cross VR243. Other than that we were over dirt strips, dirt roads, roads, airports, etc for most of the way. It was actually a really good route. You could go up through Prescott and then over to Kingman, but that is really unforgiving terrain in most cases.

    I picked up Flight Following with Vegas Approach near Searchlight (1L3). They were incredibly friendly and gave me vectors through the Bravo. Over Henderson at 5000' then over the approach end of 26L/R at KLAS and then allowed me to fly direct over to KVGT. Had almost an identical route on the way out as well. It was very simple.

    One thing I totally forgot about was that Las Vegas is an hour earlier than Phoenix. This was great going out there, but on the way back it was a bit of disadvantage. Luckily we left the airshow at about the perfect time and I arrived at Wickenburg (E25) just as it got dark.

    I had a rather bizarre exchange with a flight briefer as I wasn't able to close my flight plan on my phone for some reason. So I called a briefer and asked to close my flight plan. By the time I called him I was 13 minutes passed my ETA on the flight plan. I should have amended it, but he really went off on me for that. It really took me by surprise how rude he was. It caught me off guard. Anyways...that was really the only bad part of the trip.

    I really do love the Cherokee, but I really do wish I had more speed. Altitudes are pretty important in the Cherokee and if you get a headwind it can be a long flight. Flights both ways were right about 2 hours 30 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  30. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    Glad you had a great trip. Rare to get that routing over McCarran.

    Don’t worry about the FSS bozo about the time you called to close the flight plan.
    Used to be they did not start the communication search until 30min after. Now they try to reach you before the flight plan expiration time.
     
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  31. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    If you set up your profile on the Leidos site to send you text messages, you’ll get a text asking if you’re safe and if you want your flight plan closed, and you respond with a digit or “yes” or something (I forget) and it closes it all out for you.

    Just something to note. Makes forgetting one very uneventful. A text comes in, and you reply. Done.
     
  32. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    If I got something that rare, I'd take it as an Omen and head for the Casinos right away