Just moanin'

azure

azure

Final Approach
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azure
Today is a rare day with truly benign IMC all through SE Mich.

KDET 031604Z 32008KT 6SM BR OVC014 24/23 A2966 RMK AO2
KPTK 031618Z 34008KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC006 23/21 A2969 RMK AO2 CIG 005V010 P0000
KVLL 031635Z AUTO 32008KT 3SM BR OVC009 23/21 A2971 RMK AO2

A great day to finally go out and shoot approaches in actual! Unfortunately my CFII isn't available until 1500... and all indications are that conditions will be VFR by then.

D_mn. It always works out like this... :(
 
Got any instrument rated buddies who could be safety pilot?
 
I take it you aren't current so you can't file and shoot them by yourself? Or are you going through instrument training?
 
Sac Arrow said:
I take it you aren't current so you can't file and shoot them by yourself? Or are you going through instrument training?
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As I understand it, she's close...but still training...
 
jason said:
In BR OVC006?
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jason said:
As I understand it, she's close...but still training...
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That being the case, the "safety pilot" would have to be current IR and be PIC for at least the portion of the flight under the required IFR clearance.

But I don't think the OP would be able to log the approaches though in actual without a CFII??
 
EdFred said:
Why not? I would if I lived on her side of the state.
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Yes, I know it's legal. I'm sure you would...and I wouldn't question that decision. I'm just saying that you wouldn't want to grab any "instrument rated pilot" off of the bench and throw him into OVC006 from the right seat.
 
Sac Arrow said:
That being the case, the "safety pilot" would have to be current IR and be PIC for at least the portion of the flight under the required IFR clearance.
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The real issue for most pilots to be PIC in my airplane (not sure about Ed) is that my avionics are pretty nonstandard. My GPS is a CNX-80 (a.k.a. GNS 480) and of course that's my NAV1, and my NAV2 is a SL-30. I know I wouldn't get into a strange airplane with strange avionics I've never seen before and agree to be PIC unless I knew the PF very well.

But I don't think the OP would be able to log the approaches though in actual without a CFII??
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Why not? Without a CFII they wouldn't count as instrument training, that's all. They'd still count as flight training with a CFI, and AFAIK I'd be able to log PIC, and the approaches, regardless of who the "safety pilot" was, as long as they were IFR rated and current.
 
azure said:
The real issue for most pilots to be PIC in my airplane (not sure about Ed) is that my avionics are pretty nonstandard. My GPS is a CNX-80 (a.k.a. GNS 480) and of course that's my NAV1, and my NAV2 is a SL-30. I know I wouldn't get into a strange airplane with strange avionics I've never seen before and agree to be PIC unless I knew the PF very well.


Why not? Without a CFII they wouldn't count as instrument training, that's all. They'd still count as flight training with a CFI, and AFAIK I'd be able to log PIC, and the approaches, regardless of who the "safety pilot" was, as long as they were IFR rated and current.
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No biggie on the avionics for me. I'm used to Garmin stuff. Even if the menus are different on the 480 than my 430, the SL30 isn't that different from the SL40 I have, and yes you'd get to log actual, and the approaches. It wouldn't count as instrument training as you so noted.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I take it you aren't current so you can't file and shoot them by yourself? Or are you going through instrument training?
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Jason's right. I'm soooooo close... but don't have the rating yet. :(

If I was newly minted this would be a difficult decision for me, since I don't have a lot of actual (some 3.x hours), due to days like this.

Oh yes... predictably, conditions were still IFR until after 1500... but my CFII canceled at the last minute. :(
 
EdFred said:
No biggie on the avionics for me. I'm used to Garmin stuff. Even if the menus are different on the 480 than my 430, the SL30 isn't that different from the SL40 I have, and yes you'd get to log actual, and the approaches. It wouldn't count as instrument training as you so noted.
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The SL40 is probably similar. The 480 is NOTHING like the 430. It's not just different menus, it's a totally different buttonology. It's actually an Apollo, not a Garmin box at all.

At this point I would need to relearn the 430.
 
azure said:
The SL40 is probably similar. The 480 is NOTHING like the 430. It's not just different menus, it's a totally different buttonology. It's actually an Apollo, not a Garmin box at all.

At this point I would need to relearn the 430.
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Get the King DVD class on the 430. I know, John and Martha, but it sure worked for me. Wound up showing my CFII a couple tricks yesterday thanks to them.
 
yea the 480 is totally different (and much better IMO) than the 430/530. I really liked the one we had in the 421
 
Ghery said:
Get the King DVD class on the 430. I know, John and Martha, but it sure worked for me. Wound up showing my CFII a couple tricks yesterday thanks to them.
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Thanks, I will -- the next time I'm flying an airplane with a 430. :D

Our club planes all have 430s, but unless I sell my Cardinal before I sell my club membership, I probably won't be flying them enough to justify the time or expense (if at all).
 
azure said:
The real issue for most pilots to be PIC in my airplane (not sure about Ed) is that my avionics are pretty nonstandard. My GPS is a CNX-80 (a.k.a. GNS 480) and of course that's my NAV1, and my NAV2 is a SL-30. I know I wouldn't get into a strange airplane with strange avionics I've never seen before and agree to be PIC unless I knew the PF very well.


Why not? Without a CFII they wouldn't count as instrument training, that's all. They'd still count as flight training with a CFI, and AFAIK I'd be able to log PIC, and the approaches, regardless of who the "safety pilot" was, as long as they were IFR rated and current.
Click to expand...

Yes if you're doing VFR practice approaches - you don't even need an instrument rated person to be your safety pilot. But if you do actual approaches, a safety pilot is irrelevant. You can't act as the legal PIC of the flight since you will be on an IFR flight plan, so either your CFII or some other IR copilot would have to act as that. As far as what you can and can't log, I'd have to defer that (there is a difference in acting as legal PIC vs. logging PIC time.) Certainly the instrument time when you are manipulating the controls.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yes if you're doing VFR practice approaches - you don't even need an instrument rated person to be your safety pilot. But if you do actual approaches, a safety pilot is irrelevant. You can't act as the legal PIC of the flight since you will be on an IFR flight plan, so either your CFII or some other IR copilot would have to act as that. As far as what you can and can't log, I'd have to defer that (there is a difference in acting as legal PIC vs. logging PIC time.) Certainly the instrument time when you are manipulating the controls.
Click to expand...

Unless the PIC in the right seat is a CFI, he or she is PIC but can't log the PIC time, as long as the left seat pilot is sole manipulator of the controls. The exception to this is if some portion of the flight requires two crew members - in this case, if some portion of the flight is conducted in VMC with the pilot flying under a hood. Then both pilots can log the PIC time.

I think.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yes if you're doing VFR practice approaches - you don't even need an instrument rated person to be your safety pilot. But if you do actual approaches, a safety pilot is irrelevant. You can't act as the legal PIC of the flight since you will be on an IFR flight plan, so either your CFII or some other IR copilot would have to act as that.
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Yes... that's why I said, assuming the "safety pilot" is IFR rated and current. I guess I should have added, and has a current medical too. But yes, I knew that someone else had to be legal PIC. Otherwise, as I said, I would have been tempted to do as you suggested and file myself.
 
chucky said:
Unless the PIC in the right seat is a CFI, he or she is PIC but can't log the PIC time, as long as the left seat pilot is sole manipulator of the controls. The exception to this is if some portion of the flight requires two crew members - in this case, if some portion of the flight is conducted in VMC with the pilot flying under a hood. Then both pilots can log the PIC time.

I think.
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I'm pretty sure there is a way even in IMC that both pilots can log PIC. The left seater wears a hood. ;)

(I can't quote chapter and verse on that, but I recall that someone posted an interpretation a while back that if the PF wears a view-limiting device, the flight requires two crew members even in IMC.)
 
I just messed with the sim, doesn't look too hard to figure out for the 480 Couldn't load an approach though. Says there are none available. So I'm guessing they just didn't load them into the sib database.
 
azure said:
I'm pretty sure there is a way even in IMC that both pilots can log PIC. The left seater wears a hood. ;)

(I can't quote chapter and verse on that, but I recall that someone posted an interpretation a while back that if the PF wears a view-limiting device, the flight requires two crew members even in IMC.)
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Ah, okay. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but the FAA's interpretations seldom do.
 
EdFred said:
I just messed with the sim, doesn't look too hard to figure out for the 480
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That sounds a little like, I just flew an Airbus in Microsoft FS. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out for real... :p

Couldn't load an approach though. Says there are none available. So I'm guessing they just didn't load them into the sib database.
Click to expand...

There are times I wish I had a PC instead of a Mac... but if the sim doesn't let you load approaches, what's the point? The 480's learning curve is mostly about how it fits procedures into the flight plan.

Anyway if you know the Apollo SL series radios, you'd be fine in a pinch. If worst came to worst, you could always just use the VOR page of the GPS and fly the VOR-A approach back into VLL.
 
azure said:
That sounds a little like, I just flew an Airbus in Microsoft FS. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out for real... :p



There are times I wish I had a PC instead of a Mac... but if the sim doesn't let you load approaches, what's the point? The 480's learning curve is mostly about how it fits procedures into the flight plan.

Anyway if you know the Apollo SL series radios, you'd be fine in a pinch. If worst came to worst, you could always just use the VOR page of the GPS and fly the VOR-A approach back into VLL.
Click to expand...

Use a virtual PC of some sort to run the sim. I have a Windows 7 VM that I use for various stuff...including the 430 simulator.
 
azure said:
That sounds a little like, I just flew an Airbus in Microsoft FS. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out for real... :p
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I flew a 747 under the Golden Gate Bridge in MSFS once....
 
jason said:
Use a virtual PC of some sort to run the sim. I have a Windows 7 VM that I use for various stuff...including the 430 simulator.
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Which one do you use? I may actually do this.

(Especially since I just checked on the GNS480 Yahoo group and it's true, the database doesn't come with the sim. You're supposed to copy it from your database card... the one that goes into your 480. :wink2:)
 
EdFred said:
Why not? I would if I lived on her side of the state.
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Her "side"? MI is what, 200 nm across? No mtns to claw over, no network maze of R-space to dicker over. Commanche at your disposal. And GRR aint exactly hard against a state border.
*cough* BS *cough*
 
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azure said:
Which one do you use? I may actually do this.

(Especially since I just checked on the GNS480 Yahoo group and it's true, the database doesn't come with the sim. You're supposed to copy it from your database card... the one that goes into your 480. :wink2:)
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I use parallels...and like it. Any of them work well. If you're technically inclined, VirtualBox is free.
 
jason said:
I use parallels...and like it. Any of them work well. If you're technically inclined, VirtualBox is free.
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Thanks. Some of the user group people run the sim on Parallels. I might just try it, or VB.
 
Richard said:
Her "side"? MI is what, 200 nm across? No mtns to claw over, no network maze of R-space to dicker over. Commanche at your disposal. And GRR aint exactly hard against a state border.
*cough* BS *cough*
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Actually, 9D9 to KVLL is 96 nm...

(d&r)
 
Richard said:
Her "side"? MI is what, 200 nm across? No mtns to claw over, no network maze of R-space to dicker over. Commanche at your disposal. And GRR aint exactly hard against a state border.
*cough* BS *cough*
Click to expand...

It's called having a job.
 
More nice-looking IMC today (this morning anyway -- it's supposed to lift later on). And of course, my CFII isn't available again. In fact, he isn't available until further notice since he's working on the club planes. (That doesn't happen very often, but all three are down at the moment.)

If I'd finished up in February, I could have filed right about now and reset my currency clock by myself, all the way to Feb 2012. Then again, if I finish up this month, I'll be current until February anyway, and it's virtually certain that to get instrument current in February I'll need a safety pilot and that rarest of February commodities in Michigan... good VMC. :dunno:
 
azure said:
More nice-looking IMC today (this morning anyway -- it's supposed to lift later on).
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Decent GFR weather by the time I got to the airport at 7:30 PM. Chugged down the beach to check out Sterling State Park.








(Go For Ride)
 
Great actual here today and I was able to make it up for some approaches. It was BKN005 OVC012 when we took off. Three approaches with an actual miss on a VOR approach (because of weather).
 
azure said:
Today is a rare day with truly benign IMC all through SE Mich.

KDET 031604Z 32008KT 6SM BR OVC014 24/23 A2966 RMK AO2
KPTK 031618Z 34008KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC006 23/21 A2969 RMK AO2 CIG 005V010 P0000
KVLL 031635Z AUTO 32008KT 3SM BR OVC009 23/21 A2971 RMK AO2

A great day to finally go out and shoot approaches in actual! Unfortunately my CFII isn't available until 1500... and all indications are that conditions will be VFR by then.

D_mn. It always works out like this... :(
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Sorry I'm not handier, I flew 20 hours in my 480/30 equipped Cardinal last month, 1/3 of it IFR. I'm pretty good on that Cardinal stuff too! :)

Paul
 
I'm pretty good on that Cardinal stuff too! :)
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As a future Cardinal owner and former CFO member lapsed right now), I can verify that Paul knows whereof he speaks!
 
somorris said:
As a future Cardinal owner and former CFO member lapsed right now), I can verify that Paul knows whereof he speaks!
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As a current CFO member (except their new system says I'm lapsed because I joined years ago and was inactive for about 4 years), I know it too! :)

Hey Paul, if I ever get out to CA in my Cardinal, I'll definitely look you up!
 
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