Joining a victor airway with high MEA near mountains

polaris

polaris

Pre-takeoff checklist
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polaris
I want to depart KFRR and join V144 westbound, which has an MEA of 5500 ft due to 3000 ft mountains to the west. I want to join the victor airway for precisely that reason.

Since KFRR is 704 ft, I'm going to below MEA during the initial stages of my flight. How do I ensure terrain clearance if I am in the soup? Although I am pretty confident a steady 500 fpm climb will get me to 5500 ft before I meet the mountains, how do I know for sure? ATC isn't responsible for terrain clearance if I'm under MEA or MOCA, right?
 
You are on your own at least until you are radar identified. Do you know what the minimum vectoring altitude is in your area? A climb strategy for me would depend on avionics on board - WASS GPS or VOR. I would also talk to someone at the field that fly IFR from there regularly. A safe bet would be to climb in a hold at the Linden VOR, with that filed as part of your flight plan.
 
If your in the soup, I'd go with the ODP off rwy 10. MRB and then back to Lindèn. If you get above the MVA before MRB then take the vector to join V-144.
 
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If you look at the approach plate, there is a Triangle-T, which shows that there are alternate take off minimums, or an obstacle departure procedure (ODP). Go to the TERPS manual for this airport. It says for departure off of runway 10, do a climbing left turn direct to the MRB VORTAC before proceeding on course. I don't know if that is the runway you intend to use, but this is some information for you to consider.
 
Yup -- ODP, then on course. If you're Part 91, you don't have to do that, but it's difficult to come up with a plane to avoid the rocks if you don't.
 
PPC1052 said:
If you look at the approach plate, there is a Triangle-T, which shows that there are alternate take off minimums, or an obstacle departure procedure (ODP). Go to the TERPS manual for this airport. It says for departure off of runway 10, do a climbing left turn direct to the MRB VORTAC before proceeding on course. I don't know if that is the runway you intend to use, but this is some information for you to consider.
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Thanks guys. I see that now. It says "Runway 28, NA-obstacles" for takeoff minimums. It also doesn't list a departure procedure for Runway 28.

So if the field is IFR, I can't use Runway 28, period, right? What if it is MVFR but I require an IFR clearance to go over the mountains due to low ceilings? Can I depart Runway 28 and turn VFR toward MRB? Or am I not allowed to go IFR out of Runway 28 period?
 
The airport has a DP, but it takes you direct to MRB before proceeding on route. You are not required to follow the DP, but it is very advisable that you do, even if it takes you out of your way before you can start on course. If you can climb visually to the MEA, that is a reasonable method to get to the MEA. The area around the airport shows a fair number of obstacles and I would not be willing to depart in IMC unless I could climb visually over the airport to 3300. I pick 3300 because at that altitude, I could follow the missed approach procedure for the VOR-B to the LDN VOR and continue the climb in the hold.
 
polaris said:
So if the field is IFR, I can't use Runway 28, period, right? What if it is MVFR but I require an IFR clearance to go over the mountains due to low ceilings? Can I depart Runway 28 and turn VFR toward MRB? Or am I not allowed to go IFR out of Runway 28 period?
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Part 91, even in IFR you may depart Runway 28 (subject to the general prohibition against unsafe and reckless conduct), but that doesn't necessarily make it safe or wise. The take off minimums, or in this case the alternate take off minimum restrictions, only apply to Part 121 and part 135 operations. Same answer for MVFR.
 
polaris said:
Thanks guys. I see that now. It says "Runway 28, NA-obstacles" for takeoff minimums. It also doesn't list a departure procedure for Runway 28.

So if the field is IFR, I can't use Runway 28, period, right?
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If you're a commercial operator, that is true -- only way you could use 28 would be to take off VFR and then get your clearance in the air. However, as a noncommercial Part 91 operator, you can take off IFR on Rwy 28 at your own risk -- but that's not something I'd do unless I was in good visual conditions, and maybe not even then.

What if it is MVFR but I require an IFR clearance to go over the mountains due to low ceilings? Can I depart Runway 28 and turn VFR toward MRB? Or am I not allowed to go IFR out of Runway 28 period?
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As I said, you as a noncommercial Part 91 operator can do anything you want, but I wouldn't launch IFR off 28 out of FRR unless I had good enough weather to see where I was going until joining a published route/procedure -- you're headed straight at a ridge that is 1700 feet above field elevation less than three miles from the airport and MRB is a long way off in the other direction. If the wind was such that taking off on 10 wasn't an option, and I didn't have enough weather to visually take off, visually climb in the traffic pattern area, visually get overhead the airport, and then head east IAW with the Rwy 10 ODP, I'd stay on the ground until one of those two options (departing on 10 or climbing visually over the airport) was possible.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you're a commercial operator, that is true -- only way you could use 28 would be to take off VFR and then get your clearance in the air. However, as a noncommercial Part 91 operator, you can take off IFR on Rwy 28 at your own risk -- but that's not something I'd do unless I was in good visual conditions, and maybe not even then.

As I said, you as a noncommercial Part 91 operator can do anything you want, but I wouldn't launch IFR off 28 out of FRR unless I had good enough weather to see where I was going until joining a published route/procedure -- you're headed straight at a ridge that is 1700 feet above field elevation less than three miles from the airport and MRB is a long way off in the other direction. If the wind was such that taking off on 10 wasn't an option, and I didn't have enough weather to visually take off, visually climb in the traffic pattern area, visually get overhead the airport, and then head east IAW with the Rwy 10 ODP, I'd stay on the ground until one of those two options (departing on 10 or climbing visually over the airport) was possible.
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Taking off on Runway 10 IMC is no picnic either.
 
polaris said:
Thanks guys. I see that now. It says "Runway 28, NA-obstacles" for takeoff minimums. It also doesn't list a departure procedure for Runway 28.

So if the field is IFR, I can't use Runway 28, period, right? What if it is MVFR but I require an IFR clearance to go over the mountains due to low ceilings? Can I depart Runway 28 and turn VFR toward MRB? Or am I not allowed to go IFR out of Runway 28 period?
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You can do that, use your judgement.
 
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