Jim Gray still missing

Kind of makes me wonder why if you had a choice between making a living as a pilot vs a sailer why you'd choose sailer? Must be a bottom line thing plus I'm sure there is just as strong allure to the sea as to the sky.
 
wby0nder said:
Kind of makes me wonder why if you had a choice between making a living as a pilot vs a sailer why you'd choose sailer? Must be a bottom line thing plus I'm sure there is just as strong allure to the sea as to the sky.
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The sea and boats can call just as strongly as the sky and planes . . .

I just LOVE old wooden boats. New aluminum boats. Fiberglass boats. Steel b...
 
etsisk said:
The sea and boats can call just as strongly as the sky and planes . . .

I just LOVE old wooden boats. New aluminum boats. Fiberglass boats. Steel b...
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Just about anything with sails gets my blood pumping just slightly below that of an airplane! :yes:
 
wby0nder said:
I live a sheltered life here in the heartland. I had no idea that piracy would be a factor to consider if venturing out on the high seas. Wind and waves, sharks maybe, dehydration, starvation, sunburn. No idea about pirates. Now all the other stuff seems irrelevent.

I've got questions for our resident experts. These might sound funny to you but these are serious questions to me.

Is there anywhere in the oceans where you can go a-sailing and relax? Pacific islands? Bahamas? Gulf of Mexico? Florida waters?
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The ICW is pretty docile. Lot of traffic, easy access, lots of ports and harbors and bays, LOTS of Coast Guard and LE traffic, cell phone range, etc etc.

There is a group of us that do a run to Bimini every couple of years. We've never encountered any trouble while steaming--what trouble we've had has been with a few locals and it was minor and forgetable at best.

We spend the majority of our time in the Gulf of Mexico between Mississippi and Mexico. Had some drunk oil-rig guys hassle and harass us for almost 20 miles off the coast of Louisiana one time. They got a nice ride in a US Coast Guard 41-footer when their boat started taking on water faster than the bilge could pump it out. :dunno:

How about the Great Lakes? Can you get your throat slit out there or is it just the Gales of November you have to worry about?
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We've never hauled our boat up there. We're warm water folks. :) But we've spent time on Michigan, Huron and Erie. Weather and rough seas are what concern me up there. I've never heard of any piracy going on in the Great Lakes. Not to say it hasn't happened, but remember--no real escape route for the bad guys and no safe haven either.

Is the Mississippi River crawling with thugs?
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The big muddy has more than its share of pure old scumbag trash, but I wouldn't call them pirates by any stretch. However, dock theft is a bigtime problem in many river ports. We've taken the ICW up to the Mississippi and then traveled upwards to St. Louis. Spent every night on board. One, to cut costs (we have a nice queen-size bunk in the forward berth and a double in the aft cabin), and two to make sure nothing got ripped off. We had the German Shephards with us and they make for a fine early warning system.

Now the real question... Do I need to protect myself from Air Piracy flying around in the USA in my own airplanes?

MM
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We have a weekend home on the coast and a neighbor who has a Bonanza went in halves with us for a hangar down there. Just feel better knowing our airplane is under lock and key. If a pro wants to steal something, he's gonna do it no matter what. But I want to make it hard for them.

Elsewhere, I just keep personal and property security measures in mind at all times. Lock my plane. Take my headsets and valuable out with me when it's parked, etc.

Common sense and preparedness are a combination that will keep you out of trouble 99% of the time.

Regards.

-JD
 
Thanks JD. I have a much better sense of the situation now. Maybe some of you guys can give me some weapons training if I'm going to leave Iowa.

MM
 
What the he** you laughing at!

Knowing you, you're probably in cahoots with these guys to scare the crap out of me. Go ahead LAUGH.

JD, Henning, others, You'll have to excuse my friend Tony. I've made such a career out of making him laugh he laughs even when I'm trying to be serious. In fact, I've noticed that he's starting to laugh more when I'm being serious.
 
actually it was mostly the idea of you going to weapons training school.

and now im laughing even harder!
 
wby0nder said:
Kind of makes me wonder why if you had a choice between making a living as a pilot vs a sailer why you'd choose sailer? Must be a bottom line thing plus I'm sure there is just as strong allure to the sea as to the sky.
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When I was going 135 my paychecks were showing that I was going to take home <$18,000 that year. At the same time a boat company called me up offering me $475 a day on a schedule of 28 on 14 off (240 days for the year, which you never get that few. You always end up working over) Soooo, $118,000 or $18,000? Then there's the god factor. At sea, I am god. I answer to no one but God. There is also the challenge factor, Captain at sea is much more difficult than Captain of an aircraft. Think landing a plane is difficult? Try hipping up on a 730' barge and putting it to the dock, or pushing a quarter mile barge string down the Mississippi, flanking thru a turn coming out lined up to shoot through a bridge with 10' clearance on each side.... Lots more to deal with with boats, plus more people to train up. Then there's the punishment factor:D . I have wonderful punishments to dole out that provide me with days of entertainment. You don't get any kind of sadistic pleasure flying like you do on a boat. No sending the FAs into the bilges with a needle gun, no scaling rust off of hardware, no cleaning out the walk in freezer, no polishing the engine room pipework, no greasing the tow wire, no stripping & painting, no deck scrubbing...I love hard work, I can watch it for hours.:D Plus seamen aren't as stupid as the current crop of pilots. They aren't so dumb as to undercut each other and work for chump change, they hold out for proper pay. They are smart enough to realize their value.
 
Henning said:
At the same time a boat company called me up offering me $475 a day on a schedule of 28 on 14 off (240 days for the year, which you never get that few. You always end up working over) Soooo, $118,000 or $18,000?
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Where do I sign up?
 
Henning said:
$118,000 or $18,000?

Well batten me down the hatches... Just as I thought. The bottom line plus you get to be god.


Matt Michael
"If god is my co-pilot, what does that make me?"
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jesse said:
That would hurt--how does one go about moving up?
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120 days at sea and you test for A/B, able bodied seaman, that gets you $150 a day.With 720 days at sea, you can sit for a 100 ton Masters which will get you $190-$240 a day. Another 360 days gets you an upgrade to 200 ton which gets you some small tugs, mostly push boats for maybe $270 a day when you get some ability after say a year as mate at $220. Another 360, and now you can sit another full test set for a 500 ton ticket qualifying you for mate on the old 185' supply boats at $240 a day, and then you get $290-$320 once you break out and get your own boat. Another 360 and you upgrade to a 1600/3000ITC ticket which qualifies you for up to 280' stuff, and DP training, as mate on these boatsyou'll be about $250 a day till you get DP II qualified and add DPO then you'll look at $320-$350 a day. Once you break out on these boats, you start around $425-$475 a day. These are for average ability. When you start proving additional ability in complex functions, International route towing, Large barge string movement, Anchor Handling (setting large anchors for drilling rigs), 4 point anchor boats (setting four anchors off your boat to hold you in exact position in accordance to a survey grade chart), MSC qualifications (Military Sealift Command), Dynamic crane operations, Dive vessel operations, Ship Assist & pilotage, and most importantly, an accident and injury free operations record for a decade or more you get even better.

You can also go the Unlimited route going to one of the Maritime Colleges and graduate with a Third Mate Unlimited or work your way up the Hawse Pipe on large ships.
 
Henning said:
120 days at sea and you test for A/B, able bodied seaman, that gets you $150 a day.With 720 days at sea, you can sit for a 100 ton Masters which will get you $190-$240 a day. Another 360 days gets you an upgrade to 200 ton which gets you some small tugs, mostly push boats for maybe $270 a day when you get some ability after say a year as mate at $220. Another 360, and now you can sit another full test set for a 500 ton ticket qualifying you for mate on the old 185' supply boats at $240 a day, and then you get $290-$320 once you break out and get your own boat. Another 360 and you upgrade to a 1600/3000ITC ticket which qualifies you for up to 280' stuff, and DP training, as mate on these boatsyou'll be about $250 a day till you get DP II qualified and add DPO then you'll look at $320-$350 a day. Once you break out on these boats, you start around $425-$475 a day. These are for average ability. When you start proving additional ability in complex functions, International route towing, Large barge string movement, Anchor Handling (setting large anchors for drilling rigs), 4 point anchor boats (setting four anchors off your boat to hold you in exact position in accordance to a survey grade chart), MSC qualifications (Military Sealift Command), Dynamic crane operations, Dive vessel operations, Ship Assist & pilotage, and most importantly, an accident and injury free operations record for a decade or more you get even better.

You can also go the Unlimited route going to one of the Maritime Colleges and graduate with a Third Mate Unlimited or work your way up the Hawse Pipe on large ships.
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That's it? I thought it would be hard.

MM
 
wby0nder said:
That's it? I thought it would be hard.

MM
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Not particularly really. You just have to pay attention and put in your time. The key to boat handling is feeling inertia and accellerational forces and keeping them in check. The big hassels are management issues. Controlling your crew and the office.
 
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Henning said:
Not particularly really. You just have to pay attention and put in your time. The key to boat handling is feeling inertia and accellerational forces and keeping them in check. The big hassels are management issues. Controlling your crew and the office.
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Actually, I was kidding. OK maybe not hard but cripes a lot of time and hard work. I mean, I didn't keep a running count of the days but it looks to me like at least 5 years of hard work at sea away from friends and family being toyed with by various "gods" to be making good money. Then you still have personel and management headaches.

Boats are cool, big boats are really cool.
 
If you get attacked by pirates, they WILL kill you if they can. If you can prevent them from doing so by putting up a fight, you'll live. If you don't put up a fight, you'll die.

Take your choice.


cwyckham said:
If I don't fight back, they might kill me, or they might take my stuff and leave me in my boat, or they might take my boat and leave me in a dinghy, or they might kidnap me and try to get a ransom.

If I do fight back, they might decide I'm not worth it and wait for the next boat, or they might kill me.

If I am sailing to many different countries, they'll all have different gun control laws. If I get caught with a rifle hidden in the bilge, I might end up in a very nasty prison somewhere.

Any thoughts?

JD, I am generally very against vigilantes, but in the case of hunting pirates on the high seas, I think your friends are doing a cool thing.

Chris
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Henning said:
120 days at sea and you test for A/B, able bodied seaman, that gets you $150 a day.With 720 days at sea, you can sit for a 100 ton Masters which will get you $190-$240 a day. Another 360 days gets you an upgrade to 200 ton which gets you some small tugs, mostly push boats for maybe $270 a day when you get some ability after say a year as mate at $220. Another 360, and now you can sit another full test set for a 500 ton ticket qualifying you for mate on the old 185' supply boats at $240 a day, and then you get $290-$320 once you break out and get your own boat. Another 360 and you upgrade to a 1600/3000ITC ticket which qualifies you for up to 280' stuff, and DP training, as mate on these boatsyou'll be about $250 a day till you get DP II qualified and add DPO then you'll look at $320-$350 a day. Once you break out on these boats, you start around $425-$475 a day. These are for average ability. When you start proving additional ability in complex functions, International route towing, Large barge string movement, Anchor Handling (setting large anchors for drilling rigs), 4 point anchor boats (setting four anchors off your boat to hold you in exact position in accordance to a survey grade chart), MSC qualifications (Military Sealift Command), Dynamic crane operations, Dive vessel operations, Ship Assist & pilotage, and most importantly, an accident and injury free operations record for a decade or more you get even better.

You can also go the Unlimited route going to one of the Maritime Colleges and graduate with a Third Mate Unlimited or work your way up the Hawse Pipe on large ships.
Click to expand...

Before you go this route also read the book 'Looking for a Ship' by John McPhee. It tells the story of guy looking for jobs and hoping they will get one that will pay the bills. It looks like good pay but the jobs can be few and far between.
 
I really don't have anything to add to what JD and Henning have already written on this topic. Suffice it to say, the threat is real -- real enough to even cross my mind several times in the docile and crowded harbors of the BVI. The threat was also a major enough concern that some friends of mine pretty much scrapped an Atlantic crossing, to wait to go with at least 3 or 4 other boats. That's one thing I'd mention too: You're probably most at risk when alone.
 
Data point: Working 40 miles offshore, in 40-50' lobster boats, we carried a shotgun at all times. And the last reported attempt on a commercial vessel in the Gulf of Maine was... 30 years ago?

All it takes is once.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
CP...what kind of boat do you have?
 
So the perspective I'm getting from you all is that you really aren't all that likely to run into trouble out there. Maybe less then in everyday life on land. But, if you are going to have trouble it's likely to be very bad and you can't just dial 911. So you better be prepared for combat if you expect to live through it.

MM
 
I'm thinking, reading all this pirate talk: how many terrorists get into the country this way? Kill all on board off shore, sail back into a U.S. marina, welcome to the U.S.!

I've gone sailing a few times (other people's boats)... there was nobody there to check us out on arrival.
 
wby0nder said:
So the perspective I'm getting from you all is that you really aren't all that likely to run into trouble out there. Maybe less then in everyday life on land. But, if you are going to have trouble it's likely to be very bad and you can't just dial 911. So you better be prepared for combat if you expect to live through it.

MM
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Yep, you're pretty much on track, although don't forget to make the radio call.
 
Henning said:
Yep, you're pretty much on track, although don't forget to make the radio call.
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So they know where to look for the wreckage and shark sh** if you don't make it...


MM
 
Troy Whistman said:
I'm thinking, reading all this pirate talk: how many terrorists get into the country this way? Kill all on board off shore, sail back into a U.S. marina, welcome to the U.S.!

I've gone sailing a few times (other people's boats)... there was nobody there to check us out on arrival.
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I can count the number of times I've ever been challenged for credentials at a POE on one hand. What's more, I could literally take my boat and steam right up to a deserted shoreline, deboard and do as I please and go where I want unihibited.

No surprise there, though. We used to do the same thing to other countries when we'd sneak in by sea.

wby0nder said:
So the perspective I'm getting from you all is that you really aren't all that likely to run into trouble out there. Maybe less then in everyday life on land. But, if you are going to have trouble it's likely to be very bad and you can't just dial 911. So you better be prepared for combat if you expect to live through it.

MM
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As Henning stated, that's pretty much about it. It's also why whenever we leave US waters, we have two fully-automatic weapons on board, along with the mariner 12-guage and a stainless .357 Magnum.

Along with that, I file a float-plan with several entities--a US Coast Guard pal from way back who is still active-duty, two former ex-military buddies with training, backgrounds and experience similar to mine, and my former partner in the US Marshals.

I guess in forty-plus years of bloodletting, I've seen so much that I'm a bit more jaded than most folks. But I also absolutely refuse to be a victim or a statistic.

Regards.

-JD
 
wby0nder said:
So they know where to look for the wreckage and shark sh** if you don't make it...


MM
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There are many entities including the US Navy & USCG, Royal Navy... on the waters world wide to combat this. Many of them have helos with belt fed Vulcan machine guns to dispatch. There are fighters on standby at NAS Boca Chica last I knew as well.
 
Henning said:
There are many entities including the US Navy & USCG, Royal Navy... on the waters world wide to combat this. Many of them have helos with belt fed Vulcan machine guns to dispatch. There are fighters on standby at NAS Boca Chica last I knew as well.
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And then there are my buddies, The Pirate Killers, who come home each year with anywhere from two to six more Jolly Rogers painted on the bow of their dinghy. . . :D We've had to tell them that pretty soon, they're going to need a bigger dinghy. :D :D

Most effective tool of all.

-JD
 
I can't at all begin to remmeber the name of the movie, but I do remember the scene. Big pleasure boat, anchored somewhere overnight, guy going up on deck to stand the first watch. Grabs and loads a shotgun on the way out.

2nd guy asks him "What in the world are you taking that for?"

1st guy answers "Because when you stand a watch, you stand a watch."

wby0nder said:
So the perspective I'm getting from you all is that you really aren't all that likely to run into trouble out there. Maybe less then in everyday life on land. But, if you are going to have trouble it's likely to be very bad and you can't just dial 911. So you better be prepared for combat if you expect to live through it.

MM
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Very good show on History Channel today about modern Piracy.
 
heh some big cruise ship just fired a sound like Jesse's ringtone at the Pirates. And they left!
 
Henning or CowboyPilot-
I was just out a few days ago at a shooting range, with a new S&W .40 cal, semi-auto hammerless pistol.

I was introduced to a type of ammo I had never used previously. It is a 77gr fully fragmentable round. I figured it to be a very light slug, but I was blown away by what it can do!

We set two 1gal jugs filled with very cold Jello (made in the jugs). We popped one with a standard 180gr hollow point round, and it pretty much did what I expected.

Then we popped the other with the fragmentable 77gr round, and I was amazed! From 30' away, we were showered with red Jello! It just exploded like it had been hit with a shotgun blast!

(we actually video'd both shots, I'll try to see if I can figure out how to post them...)

Have either of you dealt with this type of ammo before? At $2 per round, it certainly is not typical target ammo... With the light weight slug, the pistol had extremely little recoil. So accuracy seemed pretty good! But for a light weight slug, it would seem to have incredible stopping power!

Curious as to your take on this ammo...
 
colomtnflyer said:
I was just out a few days ago at a shooting range, with a new S&W .40 cal, semi-auto hammerless pistol.
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Was it the S&W M&P .40? I have one and really like it. Fits my hand better than a Glock. What did you think?

swmp.jpg
 
Chip- Yes! Thats the one! I really liked it! Light, but stable, consistent feel every shot, trigger weight was just a bit heavier than I like, but it can be worked (I hope). If not, I'll get used to it. It has interchangable grip plates, to fit different sized hands.

Greg- could be... I may have heard the guy wrong... I thought he said fragmentable...maybe it was frangible? Either way, its going to hurt somebody really badly... and they'll know it!
 
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