Jetliner "plunge"

The aviation agency report concluded that the 25-year-old co-pilot had not been trained in the specific scenario the jet encountered and “probably had no clue to tackle this kind of emergency.”
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Oh LAWDEY!

Lets see, lesson one of how to fly: houses bigger = stick forward, houses smaller = stick backwards
 
CNN said:
he told passengers, who were in the middle of a meal when the jet plunged, that the plane had “went through an air pocket and that is why there was a rapid descent,” according to the report.
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An "air pocket"? As opposed to what, a void?
 
Co-Pilot was 25. Seems a bit young for a guy sitting right seat in a 37, I dunno perhaps its normal :dunno:. Whats the avg age for a right seater in the majors here,
 
Pi1otguy said:
An "air pocket"? As opposed to what,
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A hot pocket?
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AdamZ said:
Co-Pilot was 25. Seems a bit young for a guy sitting right seat in a 37, I dunno perhaps its normal :dunno:. Whats the avg age for a right seater in the majors here,
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India has a pilot shortage and has a program to get young guys with only a few hours quickly into the right seat. I think you are seeing what this could lead to with this program.

http://home.airindia.in/SBCMS/Webpages/Trainee-Pilot-Opening.aspx

You only need 25 hours of ME training and all of the could be in a sim.
 
AdamZ said:
Co-Pilot was 25. Seems a bit young for a guy sitting right seat in a 37, I dunno perhaps its normal :dunno:. Whats the avg age for a right seater in the majors here,
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Ahem. This (slightly above 25, but close) year-old pilot wouldn't be using the yoke as a support brace when trying to adjust my seat. :incazzato:
 
Pi1otguy said:
Wasn't that in lesson 1 or 2? Heck, it's in my pax brief.
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The abbreviated one works for me:

"Sit down, shut up, and don't touch anything unless I tell you to." :)
 
dmccormack said:
Pendantic lecture post to appear in 3.....2....




B)
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Keep in mind that the response I get from most of my passengers is: "WOOF!" or a confused look, and they're in cages to prevent them from causing any problems. ;)
 
ScottM said:
India has a pilot shortage and has a program to get young guys with only a few hours quickly into the right seat. I think you are seeing what this could lead to with this program.

http://home.airindia.in/SBCMS/Webpages/Trainee-Pilot-Opening.aspx

You only need 25 hours of ME training and all of the could be in a sim.
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How many castes are there in India? Does this cover all of them, or are they soliciting specific groups? The "Other backward class community"??!?

NACIL-A(Air-India) invites applications for the post of Trainee Pilot from Indian Citizens (wherever domiciled) belonging to the General category and Scheduled Caste/ Scheduled Tribe / Other Backward Class Community...
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Air India advertisement for pilots said:
Remuneration :
Trainee Pilots will be paid a stipend of Rs.25,000/- per month during their training period. On successful completion of training and on obtaining endorsement on stipulated aircraft in the fleet of Air-India, they will be appointed as Co-Pilot in the pay scale of Rs.15200-275-16300-350-17000-400-19000 on completion of stipulated conditions.
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Not bad! 25,000 Rupees = $552 US dollars... per month.
 
Make note to SIMCOM to add a 26% nose down exit from the lav and enter code into pilot's door without getting leg wet to the sillybus!

Best,

Dave
 
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C'mon now, guys. The pilot's age has little bearing on his capabilities.
There are people of ALL ages who shouldn't be flying airplanes.
My grandfather flew the Hump (China-Burma-India) in C 46s in WWII as a command pilot when he was nineteen and twenty years old. No VOR, no GPS, no nothing... through the Himalayas. In an overloaded taildragger.
Nineteen years old. Age doesn't matter.
Quality of training matters more than anything, and I get the feeling that too many pilots now are taught to fly the regulations and airspace restrictions more that the airplane.
 
Telemakhos said:
Quality of training matters more than anything, and I get the feeling that too many pilots now are taught to fly the regulations and airspace restrictions more that the airplane.
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+1 :thumbsup: :cheerswine:
 
This article contains much better details that probably should be read before posting further comments
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Co-pilot-twitched--Air-India-plane-plunged-/715481/
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Here is the official report:
http://dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/incident/VT-AXJ.pdf

"The left column force sensor reached 130 pounds nose-up, as the right column force sensor reached -200 pounds nose-down."
Wow, he exceeded mmo too.

Even after reading the report, I am still troubled by it - it makes no sense whatsoever. Kick off the automation and revert to Flying The Airplane - isn't that what most pilots would do??
 
Jim Logajan said:
This article contains much better details that probably should be read before posting further comments:

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Co-pilot-twitched--Air-India-plane-plunged-/715481/
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OK I read it and
"The incident occured due to inadvertent handling of the control column in fully automated mode by the co-pilot, which got compounded as he was not trained to recover the aircraft in automated mode," the report said.
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So he was not trained to turn off the autopilot and fly the plane?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Ahem. This (slightly above 25, but close) year-old pilot wouldn't be using the yoke as a support brace when trying to adjust my seat. :incazzato:
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Of course I wasn't suggesting that being young makes you a bone head pilot. You know that.

Telemakhos said:
C'mon now, guys. The pilot's age has little bearing on his capabilities.
There are people of ALL ages who shouldn't be flying airplanes.
My grandfather flew the Hump (China-Burma-India) in C 46s in WWII as a command pilot when he was nineteen and twenty years old. No VOR, no GPS, no nothing... through the Himalayas. In an overloaded taildragger.
Nineteen years old. Age doesn't matter.
Quality of training matters more than anything, and I get the feeling that too many pilots now are taught to fly the regulations and airspace restrictions more that the airplane.
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Again I wasnt' suggesting that his age had anything to do with it just that Age 25 seems young to be right seat in a 737.
 
968 hrs in type and the co pilot doesn't know how to fly the plane if the captain keels over dead??? WTF!
 
AdamZ said:
Of course I wasn't suggesting that being young makes you a bone head pilot. You know that.
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I know you weren't, but these comments are typical.

A 737 isn't a particularly difficult aircraft. At least, the insurance companies must not think so. A 737 type rating is shorter than a Citation type rating, and there are plenty of 25 year olds flying right seat in Citations.

I'd suspect you see fewer young pilots in the right seat of the big iron in this country because the other aviation opportunities (and numbers of pilots out there) tend to put pilots in planes that are more difficult to fly but hold fewer people first. Business jets, 1900s, Dash-8s, etc.
 
There was a time, not all that long ago, when you were considered a little old to be a new hire at an airline if you were over 30.
 
It was India right? That should explain most of the situation. The F/O's are locals. The Captains are recruited from outside the country because they can't upgrade most of the F/O's with good reason.
 
AdamZ said:
Co-Pilot was 25. Seems a bit young for a guy sitting right seat in a 37, I dunno perhaps its normal :dunno:. Whats the avg age for a right seater in the majors here,
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Depends on the economy. The better the economy, the lower the age. Nobody has been hiring here for awhile, so the average age is higher.

25 isn't all that uncommon. I was a 29 year old 737 First Officer (co-pilot if you must :D ) in the late 80's and during the hiring boom of the late 90's younger was more common.
 
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