Jane Doe, PhD, John Doe, JD

Sinistar said:
Really? I contact countless PhDs for research purposes almost always Physics. If they sign their correspondence with Dr before the first name I will happily use that from then on. Otherwise first name, last name.
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There may be a difference in subject matter there. I am often dealing with biomedical research and the chances of their having an MD is likely higher.

In the hospital or clinical setting the MDs and most PhDs are always addressed as Dr. It is part of knowing who is in charge in that setting.

In initial correspondence with people I will always address them as Dr. if I know they have one or if it is uncertain. If a person does not have a degree, then I will initially address them as Mr. or Ms. I guess I am old enough that I was taught this was good manners.
 
Jumpmaster said:
As I found out later, this was a ploy that this attorney used repeatedly with Drs since it was certain to upset them and consequently they would make mistakes in the depositions.
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Interesting strategy. I should think this could backfire in front of the jury as it could make the attorney appear to be a disrespectful jerk to many.
 
In England, you are a mr/mrs/ms till you graduate from medical school, then you are a Dr, but if you continue in your training and become a surgeon, then you are referred to as a mr/mrs/ms again.
 
Psst...My name isn't really Mantis Toboggan, MD.

Nauga,
who's sorry, Rum Ham!
 
It’s better off to stop at a masters degree, otherwise you might not be able to work a microwave.
 
Zeldman said:
Several years ago I went to see a specialist for pain in my little finger. While in his office I noticed many certificates and awards along with his degrees on the wall, so with mild curiosity I started reading them.

Right in the middle of the wall was a small certificate. I looked closer.

It was a certificate for good penmanship from the 6th grade.....
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Among the many professional certificates on the wall of my office is one that credentialed me, decades ago, as a Factory Trained MOPAR Technician with specialty certificates in Exhaust and Suspension systems.
 
The Ph.D. is the original doctorate degree; it predates the M.D. by several hundred years.
Most Ph.D.s don't object to M.D.s also referring to themselves as 'Doctor', though, even though history isn't on their side.
 
GaryM said:
The Ph.D. is the original doctorate degree; it predates the M.D. by several hundred years.
Most Ph.D.s don't object to M.D.s also referring to themselves as 'Doctor', though, even though history isn't on their side.
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I'm sure most MDs would be relieved to hear that.
 
I've got a Doctor of Divinity from the Universal Life Church. You can call me Dr. FlyingRon. Or maybe Flying Doctor Ron.
 
GaryM said:
The Ph.D. is the original doctorate degree; it predates the M.D. by several hundred years.
Most Ph.D.s don't object to M.D.s also referring to themselves as 'Doctor', though, even though history isn't on their side.
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I am a physican, I technically dont have a doctorate as that was an optional step in medical school and would have required me to defend a thesis. At that point my career, I had moved on for residency to the US and it just never happened. I am a bit like the indian and pakistani docs who have the MBBS behind their name, a title few in a US hospital know what to do with. The hospital where I was a resident would print the foreign job title onto your ID and lab-coat, but insisted to add 'M.D.' to it. One of my residency colleagues had a rather long indian name, his ID wrapped across three lines:

#################
################
MBBS M.D.

Of course, for everyone in the hospital, he was just 'Dr P'
 
I new a doctor who had one of those impossible last names. It started with ROKI... and that's how everybody referred to him (with a long O). However, I've had a few Indian friends named "Rocky" because it was easier than their real given names.
 
I really don't understand this thread at all. People work hard for those titles and deserve to be called "Doctor". I know many doctors that tell me I don't have to use their title, being friends and all, but I continue to use it out of respect. Even if they have been retired for years.

My first thought is that anyone that objects must be jealous, but I don't think it is that. Or maybe it is.

Earning the title of Doctor is a difficult path and people deserve to be recognized for it.

I do like the idea of calling people with an MS "Master", but I 'm not sure I would do that.
 
weilke said:
I am a physican, I technically dont have a doctorate as that was an optional step in medical school and would have required me to defend a thesis. At that point my career, I had moved on for residency to the US and it just never happened. I am a bit like the indian and pakistani docs who have the MBBS behind their name, a title few in a US hospital know what to do with. The hospital where I was a resident would print the foreign job title onto your ID and lab-coat, but insisted to add 'M.D.' to it. One of my residency colleagues had a rather long indian name, his ID wrapped across three lines:

#################
################
MBBS M.D.

Of course, for everyone in the hospital, he was just 'Dr P'
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In some countries around the world, including Britain, the academic degree awarded after medical school is "Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery" (MBBS). In other countries (including the US), the academic degree after medical school is considered to be a graduate degree, Doctor of Medicine (MD). There are no legalities involved...these degree titles come strictly out of academia. The history of the nomenclature is therefore pretty confusing in that there's a lot of tradition and it varies a lot around the world. From my standpoint, I don't really care how my education affects how people address me, I only care that it got me a license to do the job.
 
JOhnH said:
I really don't understand this thread at all. People work hard for those titles and deserve to be called "Doctor". I know many doctors that tell me I don't have to use their title, being friends and all, but I continue to use it out of respect. Even if they have been retired for years.

My first thought is that anyone that objects must be jealous, but I don't think it is that. Or maybe it is.

Earning the title of Doctor is a difficult path and people deserve to be recognized for it.

I do like the idea of calling people with an MS "Master", but I 'm not sure I would do that.
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I demand you call me Certified Flight Instructor - Airplane Single Engine and Multi Engine Land, Instrument Stephen.

After all, I worked hard for that title and it MUST be my name, right? :rolleyes:
 
smv said:
I demand you call me Certified Flight Instructor - Airplane Single Engine and Multi Engine Land, Instrument Stephen.

After all, I worked hard for that title and it MUST be my name, right? :rolleyes:
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You have “Land” on your flight instructor certificate? ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
You have “Land” on your flight instructor certificate? ;)
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Of course not... but if we are going to insist on using silly made up titles in place of our names, they may as well be accurate. My Commercial ticket is only good for ASEL and AMEL. I have only Private privileges for ASES & Glider. :D
 
JOhnH said:
I really don't understand this thread at all. People work hard for those titles and deserve to be called "Doctor". I know many doctors that tell me I don't have to use their title, being friends and all, but I continue to use it out of respect. Even if they have been retired for years.

My first thought is that anyone that objects must be jealous, but I don't think it is that. Or maybe it is.

Earning the title of Doctor is a difficult path and people deserve to be recognized for it.

I do like the idea of calling people with an MS "Master", but I 'm not sure I would do that.
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In the hospital, I get called 'doctor' because that is the function I have in the organization. To remind everyone, they also print it in big orange block letters on my ID.
doc.jpg
If a tech or RN who knows who I am addressed me as 'Mr Weilke', it would stand out as something intentional.


In a social setting (e.g. my kids school), anyone addressing me with the professional title is a bit awkward. I politely ask them to not do it as it is just out of place (the only folks I can never get off the 'docta' trip, are our phillipino friends, they are just hardwired to use the title with the name).


One of the things I do on the side is that I am a member in the local fire department. In that setting, I hold no rank and take assignments from 20 year olds who could be my kids. Its nice not to have people look to you to make decisions for a change. The only thing I want to be called on the fireground or at a crash scene is 'competent'.


I have never encountered a PhD, PharmD or lawyer who insists on being called 'doctor'. I have however encountered a few chiropractors and nurse practicioners who make a big todo about it.
 
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Zeldman said:
I don't care what you call me.



Just don't call me late for dinner.....:smilewinkgrin:
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You can call me Ray, or you can call me Ray Jay, or you can call me R.J., or you can call me R.J. Junior, or you can call me R.J.J, but you doesn't have to call me Johnson.
 
JOhnH said:
I really don't understand this thread at all. People work hard for those titles and deserve to be called "Doctor". I know many doctors that tell me I don't have to use their title, being friends and all, but I continue to use it out of respect. Even if they have been retired for years.

My first thought is that anyone that objects must be jealous, but I don't think it is that. Or maybe it is.

Earning the title of Doctor is a difficult path and people deserve to be recognized for it.

I do like the idea of calling people with an MS "Master", but I 'm not sure I would do that.
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I tend to agree. If someone has legitimately earned a degree that confers doctorate status and they want to be called that...they earned it.

That said, I know of no one in my field who uses the term and, for the most part, degrees are almost never mentioned. I discovered many Ph.D. in my ranks that I would never have guessed at. The masters in my field (computer science) has an interesting use as well. The most common use is not to level up your degree...it's to level up your school. Got a degree from a high-end but foreign university no one here has heard of? Get an American Masters and problem solved. Have an American degree from a lower rate college? Get your Masters from somewhere higher profile! Even I tried that...my B.S. is from UC, Irvine. Great school, little name recognition beyond folks knowing it's related to Cal somehow? So I started my M.S. at Stanford. Got halfway through (while working fulltime), my wife (at the time) cheated and left me, and I wasn't able to operate in that mental fog, not to mention the now impossibility of paying for the divorce and Stanford at the same time. Didn't hurt me in the end...I now have enough experience that no one cares about my school one whit. But it was interesting to see the difference between Stanford and UCI. The instruction wasn't different. Profs were a little more high profile, but surprisingly not much (UCI produces a surprising amount of high profile researchers). What was different was the folks I was studying with. More drive, more focus at Stanford...and that competition forced itself into everyone, as everyone now had to perform higher. So you worked harder.

I remember the final for my computer graphics course. It was an undergrad level course, as that was an area I hadn't touched at all during undergrad and was wholly ignorant. (Who knew it was a biology course, too? We spent serious time getting into eye construction, image and color perception, brain mapping, and other stuff that eventually transitioning into lessons on color spaces and the like that made the course now a math class. One challenge in the class: compute five-dimensional color spaces for ducks. Wait, what?) The final was a computer game, no surprise. Working full time as well, marriage falling apart, I barely ticked off all the required elements to pass the class. My classmates? Holy hell, the quality of the games were mind blowing. I'm not proud to admit that I was so embarrassed of my work in comparison that I bailed on the competition and judging part of the final where the games were compared and ranked by industry professionals looking for talent. Not my finest hour.
 
I’m still at the breakfast table, and my brain may not be fully in gear yet. But I am curious enough to ask what this means.[/QUOTE]

Head Mutha Fucher In Charge.
 
arnoha said:
So I started my M.S. at Stanford. Got halfway through (while working fulltime), my wife (at the time) cheated and left me, and I wasn't able to operate in that mental fog, not to mention the now impossibility of paying for the divorce and Stanford at the same time.
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The divorce rate while I was in graduate school was 100% while I was there.
 
Lon33 said:
??
I’m still at the breakfast table, and my brain may not be fully in gear yet. But I am curious enough to ask what this means.
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Leadership figure in charge.

(dont use this in polite company)
 
A talented A&P mechanic at a GA airport has more stature than a wealthy doctor flying the latest and greatest hardware. He is a valuable asset when you need him. Still, A&P's don't go around introducing themselves "Hello, I'm John Doe A&P." An A&P can't legally perform an appendectomy and a doctor can't legally perform a top overhaul. So it comes down to the fact that we are all important contributors wether we have identifying titles or not.
 
Brad Smith said:
A talented A&P mechanic at a GA airport has more stature than a wealthy doctor flying the latest and greatest hardware. He is a valuable asset when you need him. Still, A&P's don't go around introducing themselves "Hello, I'm John Doe A&P." An A&P can't legally perform an appendectomy and a doctor can't legally perform a top overhaul. So it comes down to the fact that we are all important contributors wether we have identifying titles or not.
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Whatever you're smoking, I could really use some.
 
weilke said:
In the hospital, I get called 'doctor' because that is the function I have in the organization. To remind everyone, they also print it in big orange block letters on my ID.
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If a tech or RN who knows who I am addressed me as 'Mr Weilke', it would stand out as something intentional.
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In Britain, they'd call you "Mr. Weilke" if you were a surgeon?

Addressing a physician as "doctor", or introducing yourself as such in a professional setting, serves to clarify the hierarchy. It identifies the role that you play in that patient's health care.
 
I get a real giggle out of the folks, both the "educated" types and military members, who introduce themselves by saying something along the lines of "My name is Doctor/Professor/Sergeant/Captain Joe Bleaux."

No. It is not. Your name is Joe Bleaux and your job is Doctor/Professor/Sergeant/Captain.

A dishwasher with a Ph.D. is still a dishwasher, not a doctor.
 
The saying at my grad schools was BS (Bullsh**), MS (More Sh**), PhD (Piled higher and Deeper). As a victim of all three levels, I can attest to the validity of the analysis.

Cheers
 
weilke said:
If a tech or RN who knows who I am addressed me as 'Mr Weilke', it would stand out as something intentional.
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I am just curious if you pronounce your name in your original German or have you given up on Americans to not know how to say it?
 
MacFly said:
Addressing a physician as "doctor", or introducing yourself as such in a professional setting, serves to clarify the hierarchy. It identifies the role that you play in that patient's health care.
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In a professional setting, certainly.

But I think what people are poking fun at are the pretentious ones who use "Dr" in casual settings. It's one thing to walk up to a patient at a clinic and introduce yourself as "Dr. Bones." Same thing for a PhD in electrical engineering to introduce himself as "Dr. Sparks" at an IEEE conference.

But introducing yourself that way at a party is silly and pretentious.
 
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I introduce myself as Dr. ******** all the time. If you don't like it you can go have a sexual experience with yourself.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I am just curious if you pronounce your name in your original German or have you given up on Americans to not know how to say it?
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I have given up ;-)

And no, I am not related to Wendell Willkie who ran against FDR. But that's how my name ends up being pronounced.
 
weilke said:
I have given up ;-)

And no, I am not related to Wendell Willkie who ran against FDR. But that's how my name ends up being pronounced.
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Schade. If we ever meet, I will pronounce it properly.
 
This has been fascinating. I am surprised at the number of people who object/resent/disregard/reject a person's desire to be addressed a certain way or who sign their name a certain way. Personally it makes no difference to me and does not effect my life in anyway. As a matter of social lubrication and just plane (<-- see what I did there) good manners I will address you as you please without judgment as to whether or not it is appropriate. I am not Catholic but will call a Priest Father and a Nun Sister. I do however draw the line at calling judges "your honor." I have no way to know if they are honorable and so just use "judge" or "Judge LastName."

Edit -corrected typo.
 
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