Jammed yoke

[andrerw172]

Hi guys!

Let's say we are flying a small single engine aircraft, we enter a normal left turn and when we reach the bank angle, we are unable to release the yoke back to neutral, it's jammed there. Can we overcome it? Is it a controllable situation if we use full opposite rudder? Can we stop the roll or the aicraft will keep rolling and in a few seconds we gonna crash? In a multi-engine I think you have one more option, that's asymmetric thrust, so it's a little easier to counteract the roll, but what about single engine scenario?

In think it's a barely controllable situation, I didn't find another one like this, maybe jammed yoke in pitch, but you can use the trim opposite way if your elevator is jammed, can you? Or the trim tab is too small to have any effect? And you also have power to pitch up.

If you know scenarios like the one above, I'm really curious to hear them, as I said, I didn't find others to be so close to an out of control sitation.

Thank you very much!

 

[Dr. O]

Rudder should be able to stop the roll - but it depends on a lot of things and is beyond the usual scrum we get into in these kind of discussions... You landing attitude is going to a hoot, though..

 

[Henning]

It depends on the plane and where the controls got stuck, but most likely you could control it well enough with counter rudder and survive the landing.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I can fly straight with the stick hard against the stops. In fact, I do it semi-regularly. It's called a forward slip.

Other airplanes may run out of rudder if the stick was all the way over, but if you just roll into a "normal" turn it shouldn't be a big deal.

Touching down in a slip could be entertaining. But I suspect it would be easier in one of those nosewheel airplanes.

Jammed elevator, it depends on how jammed. If you get stuck during "normal" flight where you hardly move the stick trim might do it. You can play with power as well.

 

[Captain]

Jammed controls is one of the most threatening of emergencies. Even planes with off side controll disconnects can have a real issue with jammed controls. Glad it hasn't happened to me yet (IRL).

 

[raider]

crosswind landing

 

[azure]

This is why Cardinal pilots are (or should be) taught from day one to check that the wing tip fuel vent tubes are secure during preflight. They're held to the wing tips by rather flimsy brackets and if the bracket breaks and the vent tube gets loose, it can jam the aileron.

 

[andrerw172]

I'm happy to hear so good news from you that you have a decent chance to stop the roll with opposite rudder, but I'm worrying about the abnormal cross-controlled attitude, can it lead to a spin assuming that it will be harder than a forward slip or a sideslip?

 

[Henning]

I'm happy to hear so good news from you that you have a decent chance to stop the roll with opposite rudder, but I'm worrying about the abnormal cross-controlled attitude, can it lead to a spin assuming that it will be a little harder than a forward slip or a sideslip?

Anything can happen, just deal with it when it happens. If it scares you, don't fly, this stuff is way too expensive to waste your time on if it isn't joyful or really really useful, preferably both.

 

[andrerw172]

I'm asking about it because it seems to be a unique out of control situation especially if you'll get into a spin using opposite rudder. I will not quit flying because I'm already too addicted, I just think about scenarios like this to be prepared and know how to deal with them because I'm sure that it's better to know it before it happens.

 

[TMetzinger]

I'm happy to hear so good news from you that you have a decent chance to stop the roll with opposite rudder, but I'm worrying about the abnormal cross-controlled attitude, can it lead to a spin assuming that it will be harder than a forward slip or a sideslip?

Only if you stall first.

Now... Landing will be tricky, but if you fly the airplane all the way to the stop you should be ok.

 

[raider]

the degree of the slip probably wouldn't matter, just adjust power

 

[CT4ME]

It's one thing to have some semblance of control in the air... but getting it safely on the ground is a whole different thing...
'Perfect time to Pop the 'Chute

 

[Sac Arrow]

It's happened to me and I even posted about it. I did a very wide 180 rudder only, called for a precautionary landing, and was cleared straight in for the non active runway I happened to be lined up with. The landing wasn't pretty but nothing got bent getting it back on the ground.

 

[andrerw172]

In your incident, the yoke was jammed neutral, right?

 

[tiger]

Rich Stowell's "Emergency Maneuver Training" book has lots of discussion on handling control failures. Might be worth a read for the theoretical considerations: http://www.richstowell.com/store/books/book-emergency-maneuver-training/. Obviously, you could also actually practice this type of scenario with an instructor who is comfortable / competent with it. There are outfits that specialize in providing emergency training.

My understanding is that most 'trainer class' GA airplanes are pretty spin resistant in a slip. When I did some upset/spin training in a Decathlon, I remember being able to stall in a hard slip and it would just keep on sinking. But I'm pretty sure this isn't the case in all airplanes.

 

[Sac Arrow]

In your incident, the yoke was jammed neutral, right?

Not exactly. I flew at a cant and landed in a slight slip, kicking it out straight at the end with the rudder just before touchdown.

The jam was due to an autopilot malfunction.

 

[TMetzinger]

Just remember that the only purpose for an airplane after takeoff is to get you back to earth as safely as is possible.

Don't hesitate to sacrifice the airplane to save the people on board.

 

[andrerw172]

Very good advice Tim, I was really curious about this emergency because it seemed to be close to an unrecoverable one. There are a lot of emergencies we can encounter and we can deal with them even if you bent the plane, but these related to jammed controls or surfaces are really scaring if you think you can't get you on ground and being still alive. Maybe a structural failure can have worse circumstances but I wouldn't think about that as long as I don't pull 5Gs in the 172... just kidding here if you find others, I'm really curious Thank you so much guys!

 

[Henning]

Andrew, take the plane up a couple thousand feet, throw the yoke hard one way and full rudder the other and see what happens and if you can control it. That's how we learn how it goes.

 

[TMetzinger]

Very good advice Tim, I was really curious about this emergency because it seemed to be close to an unrecoverable one. There are a lot of emergencies we can encounter and we can deal with them even if you bent the plane, but these related to jammed controls or surfaces are really scaring if you think you can't get you on ground and being still alive. Maybe a structural failure can have worse circumstances but I wouldn't think about that as long as I don't pull 5Gs in the 172... just kidding here if you find others, I'm really curious Thank you so much guys!

The highly-unlikely-but-still-possible event that I think about is a prop failure or other major imbalance that rips the engine off the mounts. CG is then so far aft that the airplane is not controllable. That would be a good "wish I had a BRS" situation.

But it's a remote possibility, so it's one of the "can't mitigate it so will accept it" risks.

 

[Skylane81E]

Andrew, take the plane up a couple thousand feet, throw the yoke hard one way and full rudder the other and see what happens and if you can control it. That's how we learn how it goes.

Read POH first please, we don't want to bend the airplane

 

[andrerw172]

The highly-unlikely-but-still-possible event that I think about is a prop failure or other major imbalance that rips the engine off the mounts. CG is then so far aft that the airplane is not controllable. That would be a good "wish I had a BRS" situation.

But it's a remote possibility, so it's one of the "can't mitigate it so will accept it" risks.

Even it falls into structural failures category, I never think about that. I wonder if it's good to make a separate topic talking about plausible problems or if it's enough what was said here. I don't want to be exaggerated assuming that many ppl think it's not so good playing what if game.

 

[raider]

Not exactly. I flew at a cant and landed in a slight slip, kicking it out straight at the end with the rudder just before touchdown.

The jam was due to an autopilot malfunction.

there was no kill switch or fuse?

not sure about others but i use FSX for what if scenarios - just to see what the computer makes of it.

 

[TMetzinger]

there was no kill switch or fuse?

not sure about others but i use FSX for what if scenarios - just to see what the computer makes of it.

Could have been a servo issue that was mechanical. You're supposed to be able to break the "clutch" on the servomotor before you break the control cable.

But it certainly would take a great deal of faith to push on that control as hard as you can in the hope that the obstruction will break before something else does.

 

[Henning]

Could have been a servo issue that was mechanical. You're supposed to be able to break the "clutch" on the servomotor before you break the control cable.

But it certainly would take a great deal of faith to push on that control as hard as you can in the hope that the obstruction will break before something else does.

There should be no possible way to break any component in the system with human strength.

 

[TMetzinger]

There should be no possible way to break any component in the system with human strength.

Assuming well maintained components, I agree.

 

[Henning]

Assuming well maintained components, I agree.

If they aren't the plane shouldn't be in annual or otherwise be considered airworthy and flying.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Could have been a servo issue that was mechanical. You're supposed to be able to break the "clutch" on the servomotor before you break the control cable.

But it certainly would take a great deal of faith to push on that control as hard as you can in the hope that the obstruction will break before something else does.

Correct - it felt as though it was jammed solid and I really didn't want to break the control cable. THAT could have ended up badly.

Turns out that in the course of maneuvering in an attempt to latch the door inflight, I forgot to turn the autopilot off. It should have disconnected, but it didn't.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I'm happy to hear so good news from you that you have a decent chance to stop the roll with opposite rudder, but I'm worrying about the abnormal cross-controlled attitude, can it lead to a spin assuming that it will be harder than a forward slip or a sideslip?

I assumed you learned to fly in an airplane with them flap things and never did much of a slip.

Nothing abnormal about having a control against the stop during a slip - that's how you get down after clearing an obstacle.

 

[GCA319]

Rich Stowell's "Emergency Maneuver Training" book has lots of discussion on handling control failures. Might be worth a read for the theoretical considerations: http://www.richstowell.com/store/books/book-emergency-maneuver-training/. Obviously, you could also actually practice this type of scenario with an instructor who is comfortable / competent with it. There are outfits that specialize in providing emergency training.

My understanding is that most 'trainer class' GA airplanes are pretty spin resistant in a slip. When I did some upset/spin training in a Decathlon, I remember being able to stall in a hard slip and it would just keep on sinking. But I'm pretty sure this isn't the case in all airplanes.

Correct. I've taken a 150 out to experiment and in a properly executed slip, the stall will break just like any other stall.

 

[Henning]

Planes are not 'spin resistant' in a slip, it is physically impossible for them to spin from a slip. You have to wait for the low wing to come over the plane and get you into a skid, then it can spin.

 

[Tom-D]

Planes are not 'spin resistant' in a slip, it is physically impossible for them to spin from a slip. You have to wait for the low wing to come over the plane and get you into a skid, then it can spin.

The C-170-B with the 40 degree flaps full down, will skid really well, and if you hold the nose high until it breaks, it will roll right over on its back and spin like crazy.

 

[Henning]

The C-170-B with the 40 degree flaps full down, will skid really well, and if you hold the nose high until it breaks, it will roll right over on its back and spin like crazy.

That's what said, a spin will only break under from a skid. A slip would have to force the low wing up and over into a skid before it can spin. That takes time, enough to get your foot out of the rudder. Only a skid will tuck under.