JAL 787 fire

Well, last time I checked, Lucas still had the contract to provide Boeing's electrical systems.

Yes, Lucas.

The same Lucas of Triumph and MG fame.

The same Lucas who inspired such laudatory bumper stickers as:

Lucas The Prince of Darkness.

and

Englishmen drink warm beer...
...because they have Lucas refrigerators!

:goofy:

Knowing that Lucas subcontracts to Boeing has always given me pucker when on one of their birds.
 
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With the track record and reputation Lucas has..... I am SHOCKED they are still in business, never the less making aerospace parts..:hairraise::eek::yikes:..

What the hell is Boeing thinking..:dunno::dunno:
 
N801BH said:
What the hell is Boeing thinking..:dunno::dunno:
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The same thing they were thinking when they relocated to Chicago. It's not the same Boeing that built Stearman, B-17, and the 707 anymore.
 
Now that I do some googling, I'm not sure it's the same Lucas. It may be but it's hard to tell because there's been a lot of mergers involved with both Lucas Industries and Lucas Aerospace.

So...

:dunno:

But both seem to be currently owned by TRW though Lucas Industries is listed as defunct.
 
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Hybrid...almost as bad as flying experimentals

The 787 uses an electrical system that is a hybrid voltage system consisting of the following voltage types: 235 volts alternating current (VAC), 115 VAC, 28 volts direct current (VDC), and ±270 VDC. The 115 VAC and 28 VDC voltage types are traditional, while the 235 VAC and the ±270 VDC voltage types are the consequence of the no-bleed electrical architecture that results in a greatly expanded electrical system generating twice as much electricity as previous Boeing airplane models. The system includes six generators — two per engine and two per APU — operating at 235 VAC for reduced generator feeder weight. The system also includes ground power receptacles for airplane servicing on the ground without the use of the APU.
 
Re: Hybrid...almost as bad as flying experimentals

RV10flyer said:
The 787 uses an electrical system that is a hybrid voltage system consisting of the following voltage types: 235 volts alternating current (VAC), 115 VAC, 28 volts direct current (VDC), and ±270 VDC. The 115 VAC and 28 VDC voltage types are traditional, while the 235 VAC and the ±270 VDC voltage types are the consequence of the no-bleed electrical architecture that results in a greatly expanded electrical system generating twice as much electricity as previous Boeing airplane models. The system includes six generators — two per engine and two per APU — operating at 235 VAC for reduced generator feeder weight. The system also includes ground power receptacles for airplane servicing on the ground without the use of the APU.
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I seem to remember the 787 runs these electrically powered air cycle machines.
 

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Well, as a former Jaguar mechanic, I've got a few thoughts on Lucas.

Lucas electrical of MG/Triumph/Jaguar fame actually was capable of making good components. Like many companies, the quality of the components depended on the price one was willing to pay. So, MGs/Triumphs had crappy electrical systems. Jaguars had better - and actually I found them to generally be pretty reliable. Rolls Royce/Bentley also used Lucas electrical systems, and those were significantly better still.

Out of the probably 10 Jaguars I've owned, the amount of electrical work I've had to do to any of them is about zero. Most of it was my own fault. Sure, being a Jaguar specialist I had to deal with things like a car that had the radio turn on when you hit the front passenger power window switch in the down position, but those were really quite rare.

When you get into Part 25 aircraft, there are pretty strict requirements on what goes in. Given the fact that the 787 is a fully electronic aircraft (doesn't even use bleed air off the engines for the cabin pressurization or anti-ice), it isn't the least bit surprising to me that some of the early models are having electrical issues, regardless of who did the electrical system, or any part of it.
 
But Lucas also had a non-compete agreement with Delco, Bosch & just about all the other electrical component mfgrs that allowed them to monopolize the English cars.

Monopolies make for sloppy, fat companies. Competition is your best ally.
 
timwinters said:
Well, last time I checked, Lucas still had the contract to provide Boeing's electrical systems.

Yes, Lucas.

The same Lucas of Triumph and MG fame.

The same Lucas who inspired such laudatory bumper stickers as:

Lucas The Prince of Darkness.

and

Englishmen drink warm beer...
...because they have Lucas refrigerators!

:goofy:

Knowing that Lucas subcontracts to Boeing has always given me pucker when on one of their birds.
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YHGTBSM, Lucas, Prince of Darkness is aboard the 787:hairraise: Didn't any of these idiots ever own a British car? At least one of them must have had an old Jag.... Is the 787 Positive Gound?:rofl:
 
About twenty years ago a buddy picked me up in his dad's relatively new Jag. There were idiot lights lit all over its panel. I asked him what the deal was. He said it had electrical problems since new, and had been in at least a dozen times for service and they couldn't find the problem.
 
Calm down children. Lucas Aerospace is not a 787 contractor. The 787 electrical power distribution system is proud product of Hamilton Sundstrand, a division of Untied Technologies Corporation.
 
Re: Hybrid...almost as bad as flying experimentals

N801BH said:
I seem to remember the 787 runs these electrically powered air cycle machines.
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Well, the ECS system does but doesn't appear to have anything in particular to do with the recent failure.
 
timwinters said:
But Lucas also had a non-compete agreement with Delco, Bosch & just about all the other electrical component mfgrs that allowed them to monopolize the English cars.

Monopolies make for sloppy, fat companies. Competition is your best ally.
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Agreed fully, just saying that as one who had to work on Jags a great deal, I found the electrical systems were the least of the worries I had. I never even touched a positive ground Jag, and I'm not sure which ones were.
 
Lithium battery in the rear of the plane blew up...:yikes::hairraise::eek:...


On one of the sites I visit, a person posted a pic of a ELT powered by a Lithium battery... Remember, ELT's are for use in a plane...... The box it was shipped in was clearly marked... Do not ship this Lithium Battery device by airfreight.... Wish I saved the pic...... Talk about irony..:yes::confused:
 
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timwinters said:
Lucas The Prince of Darkness.

and

Englishmen drink warm beer...
...because they have Lucas refrigerators!
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To their credit Lucas was the inventor of the dual beam headlamp - dim and flicker d;-o

Seriously though, even though it probably has nothing to do with Lucas an on-board fire is going to require a significant investigation - might even lead to temporary grounding of the fleet.
 
And to pile on, apparently another 787 had a fuel leak today....
 
It's hitting Boeing where it hurts:

Shares of Chicago-based Boeing have fallen 4.6 percent since the fire was reported, wiping out almost $2.7 billion of the company’s value. On Tuesday they fell $2, or 2.6 percent, to close at $74.13.
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Ted DuPuis said:
Agreed fully, just saying that as one who had to work on Jags a great deal, I found the electrical systems were the least of the worries I had. I never even touched a positive ground Jag, and I'm not sure which ones were.
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Rule of thumb, if it has a generator it's positive ground, if it has an alternator it's negative. I've seen a lot of smoked systems when someone installed the battery backwards and it wasn't cheap or easy to rectify.
 
Henning said:
Rule of thumb, if it has a generator it's positive ground, if it has an alternator it's negative. I've seen a lot of smoked systems when someone installed the battery backwards and it wasn't cheap or easy to rectify.
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How does one know if it has a generator or alternator?
 
denverpilot said:
Good buying opportunity if you like the long term story.
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Seems like good advice...........

Till a 787 catches fire in flight and crashes, taking out 300 people....:yikes::sad:

That is the time to buy Boeing stock.... Rock bottom then..:yes:
 
N801BH said:
Till a 787 catches fire in flight and crashes, taking out 300 people....
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Or until the vertical stabilizer flies off, or airspeed sensors freeze...
 
us AAirways said:
How does one know if it has a generator or alternator?
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If you can't tell by looking, you shouldn't be working on it.:rofl: Seriously though, the length of the unit, generators are longer than round, alternators are rounder than long.
 
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N801BH said:
Seems like good advice...........

Till a 787 catches fire in flight and crashes, taking out 300 people....:yikes::sad:

That is the time to buy Boeing stock.... Rock bottom then..:yes:
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Sadly, it is. Boeing is backed by the import-export bank. They're as close to an AIG style backing from government as one can get in aviation.

Inflation and "company valuation" will smooth their upward line pretty much forever, given enough time. Especially with their critical defense contracts underneath the hood.
 
Intense battery fire, it was.

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