I've seen some $ grabbing stuff before but

bnt83

Final Approach
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Brian
An STC for a single $1200 LED nav light (position light) that has an Airworthiness Limitation REQUIRING overhaul every 12 years or 12,000 hours whichever occurs first in the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness.

:vomit:

Why not just say "replace the assembly if two or more segments fail to illuminate" or something like that?

:mad2:
 
Which ones? So we know to avoid them..
 
An STC for a single $1200 LED nav light (position light) that has an Airworthiness Limitation REQUIRING overhaul every 12 years or 12,000 hours whichever occurs first in the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness.

:vomit:

Why not just say "replace the assembly if two or more segments fail to illuminate" or something like that?

:mad2:

Forget that.

I can get 2 HID lights for that price, and without that stupid yearly "overhaul"
 
Who cares about the ICA, are you really gonna pay $1200 for a nav light?

I know all about the benefits of LED's but be honestly, do you not see way more cars these days (typically Prius's) driving along at night with one or both tail lights completely inop?
 
Well, hate to break it to you, but all the LEDs I've seen have a clause that if one or more LEDs go out, the light is un-airworthy. It's certified with all of them working. Reduce the output, it does not meet the STC. The 12 year thing is a joke though.
 
Well, hate to break it to you, but all the LEDs I've seen have a clause that if one or more LEDs go out, the light is un-airworthy. It's certified with all of them working. Reduce the output, it does not meet the STC. The 12 year thing is a joke though.

The nice thing about electrical devices is that you can always saw "hmm, it was working a second ago" and nobody can ever prove you wrong.
 
The nice thing about electrical devices is that you can always saw "hmm, it was working a second ago" and nobody can ever prove you wrong.

Yep. I had a landing light work during preflight, but not when I was trying to land over the trees three hours later . . . Now I've gone LED and don't worry about it as much.
 
Yep. I had a landing light work during preflight, but not when I was trying to land over the trees three hours later . . . Now I've gone LED and don't worry about it as much.

"as much" is a good way to look at it. Like I said, next time you see a car going down the road at night with one or both tail lights completely dark take note of the fact that it's probably a new one with LED lights. Compare the complexity of a simple tungsten element bulb with a typical LED. Even a reading light requires a PCB that rivals the complexity of a miniaturized 1979 Apple II motherboard.

Point is the "multi element" aspect isn't always going to save you. In most cases it's not gonna.
 
Compare the complexity of a simple tungsten element bulb with a typical LED. Even a reading light requires a PCB that rivals the complexity of a miniaturized 1979 Apple II motherboard.

Complexity? Reliability? Compare the reliability of a single resistor that doesn't even run warm and a solid state LED with a MTBF measured in the tens of thousand hours with a light bulb with a filament run moderately close to the melting point of the tungsten and moderately close to the softening point of the glass bulb and tell me about complexity and reliability.

Jim
.
 
Well FWIW Jim I just replaced all of the fluorescent lights in my garage with those $35 LED ones at Costco. They have a 5 year warranty and a life expectancy of 45 years. Did I mention how BRIGHT they are? It's like daylight on steroids.

But honestly, don't you see a lot of Prius's driving around with no tail lights? What's up with that?
 
$1200? what airplane? which LED? Position light on the cherokee was far less than the landing light, and that was only $275. Guess I need to read the STC, didn't know about the limits.
 
Me either. I never let a Prius get in front of me.

Have you never passed one?

I'm not kidding, I see an inordinate number of them with either one or both tail lights out. So many in fact that it's a point that I've noticed it. One or two...no, you wouldn't make a mental note of it but I've seen a great number of them.
 
I don't notice (m)any Prius with tail lights out. Maybe there was a bad run of lights that were all in the cars that got shipped to your area.
 
I see an inordinate number of them with either one or both tail lights out.

So, from the battery bus we have a fuse, a switch, about 10' of wire, a socket, a current limiter, and an LED bulb. So of course the LED has to be the problem? I see a whole BUNCH of candidates more likely to be at fault than the LED itself.

Jim
 
I see cars with no tail lights on all the time. It's not because they aren't working though, it's because the operator is too dumb to realized that their lights aren't turned on. Between daytime running lights and digital dashboards people seem to not be able to figure out that you still need to flip the switch at night.
 
Well lets see, one 35 watt incandescent bulb, vs about 5-8 20 milliwatt LEDs.
On a 12 volt system that 35 watt bulb is drawing about 3 amps. The 5-8 20 milliwatt LEDs are drawing about .096 amps. So you can run your whole LED nav light system on less current drain than one single incandescent nav light. Using 12v LEDs as opposed to mV LEDs removes the need to waste power through a resistor.
Also, the required circuitry to make the LEDs flash, such as Strobes, is much lighter in weight, and way smaller. A very simple circuit to build and repair, very few components, and fits into about a 1/2" cube.

As to cars with non working LED tail lights, I've seen none that have not been damaged. However, I have seen a few trucks (18 wheeler) with a couple of elements out in a single light. But I would suspect that that light has been several thousands of miles over roads of many varying conditions.
 
That's a lot of money for a nav light, looks like a zero too many.
 
Well lets see, one 35 watt incandescent bulb, vs about 5-8 20 milliwatt LEDs.

Um... a red low power LED is about 2 volts at 25 mA max, or 50 milliwatts. However, even 10 of these little buggers isn't anywhere near as bright as a 35 watt incandescent. You wind up with a 5 watt LED to get sufficient brightness for a nav light, which is about 3 high power LEDs in series on a single substrate. That's 6 volts and to get 5 watts you wind up running not quite one amp into the device.

Reality check on these numbers says that an incandescent bulb is about 3 to 4% efficient turning energy into light and an LED is 10-12% efficient doing the same. That seems to jibe ... the LED is about 3x as efficient and draws 1/3 the current for the same apparent brightness.

One thing the LED DOES have going for it is that the light starts out red or green or white and doesn't need an optical filter (colored lens) in the way to filter out the colors you DON'T want. That increases the efficiency quite a bit.


On a 12 volt system that 35 watt bulb is drawing about 3 amps. The 5-8 20 milliwatt LEDs are drawing about .096 amps.

Um ... not quite. 8 LEDs drawing 25 mA each is about 200 mA (0.2 amps) and as I said above, nowhere near as bright as the incandescent.

Using 12v LEDs as opposed to mV LEDs removes the need to waste power through a resistor.

Um ... there is no such thing as a 12 volt LED. Incandescents with tungsten filaments have a positive temperature coefficient -- the more current that runs through them the hotter the filament gets and the resistance of the filament goes up which causes the current to go down which causes the resistance to go down ... and this little dance continues until milliseconds after the light is switched on, the current stabilizes and you have a constant VOLTAGE device. LEDs aren't so nice...a red LED has a forward voltage with a current that becomes exponential with forward voltage, so you wind up running a constant current through them to stabilize them. One GOOD way is with an external current limiting resistor, or if you don't like that, you can mickey around with a constant current power supply which takes a bit more room than a half inch cube.

Also, the required circuitry to make the LEDs flash, such as Strobes, is much lighter in weight, and way smaller. A very simple circuit to build and repair, very few components, and fits into about a 1/2" cube.

Um ... the control components may fit in a half inch cube IF you use SMD devices and little tiny passive components but you still need a power control device that will dissipate a few watts, so you need something with some heft to it. There ain't no free lunch.
.....


Jim
 
That's a lot of money for a nav light, looks like a zero too many.

I agree. It goes on a plane that is around 35k pounds empty.

Some of the ridiculous ICA requirements would prevent me from purchasing those STCs.
 
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