Its snowing!! Aviation question within.

[SkyHog]

Ok - so its actually snowing outside. Its awesome, one of the normal 3 snow storms (if you want to call them that) per year.

So - clouds are high up, snow is falling. Vis is pretty good. Would flying in snow accumulate ice? Either way, is flight into snow considered flight into ice? I'd like to fly if I could, its pretty (I'd stay in the pattern).

 

[EdFred]

Fly away Nick! I've flown in/under snow before with no issues. It usually just slips right over the plane.

 

[Greebo]

Snow is already frozen, so when (if, given the slipstream) it hits the plane its going to do one of two things:
1) Melt
2) Bounce

Ice is only a danger when you are flying through water in its liquid state (rain, clouds, mist) and the air temp (and subsequently, your airplane's skin temp) is below freezing, or when the liquid is supercooled (liquid form but below the freezing temperature) and it hits the surface which disrupts its shape and allows ice crystals to form.

So flying in light snow, so long as your visibility is ok, is fun.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

So - clouds are high up, snow is falling. Vis is pretty good. Would flying in snow accumulate ice?

I suppose it depends on how wet the snow is. If it is a dry powdery snow, there is little chance of accumulation. If it is a heavy wet snow, it could accumulate. Also kind of depends on how warm the airframe is. If you just rolled it out of a heated hangar, I suppose it is possible that the snow would melt on the airframe with the possibility of re freezing.

Either way, is flight into snow considered flight into ice? I'd like to fly if I could, its pretty (I'd stay in the pattern).

I suppose a case could be made that it is. After all, snow is visible moisture, albeit frozen moisture. I can't answer that one for sure.

 

[gismo]

Ok - so its actually snowing outside. Its awesome, one of the normal 3 snow storms (if you want to call them that) per year.

So - clouds are high up, snow is falling. Vis is pretty good. Would flying in snow accumulate ice? Either way, is flight into snow considered flight into ice? I'd like to fly if I could, its pretty (I'd stay in the pattern).

When the snow is flying you are generally in ice free air. It is possible to find ice in the tops of clouds that generate ice. Also there are times when snow falls through a warm layer and refreezes below that and you don't want to be there (typical result is snow pellets and/or freezing drizzle). That said, I've flown in snow a lot and never encountered anything more than trace to light icing in the same area.

You say vis is pretty good but the most common problem with snow is that the visibility can get really bad really quick. In addition to the obscuration of the snow in the air, snow on the ground makes everything look the same. This can make it difficult to find airports, runway centerlines, and the horizon. And snow blowing across a runway can provide a panic inducing total whiteout as you flare.

 

[deafsound]

Go for it, but, you could also have snow accumulation and melt on your windshield the same way your car does---slush! Not likely, but possible. Watch out for tubes and ports getting blocked in that situation. Carb ice too.
I'll bet you guys only get the light powdery stuff down there in NM, not the heavy crud we get up here.

 

[Skip Miller]

Go for it, but, you could also have snow accumulation and melt on your windshield the same way your car does---slush! Not likely, but possible. Watch out for tubes and ports getting blocked in that situation. Carb ice too.
I'll bet you guys only get the light powdery stuff down there in NM, not the heavy crud we get up here.

Also be alert for snow clogging your air filter, requiring carb heat or alternate air to bypass the filter. Some planes have a spring loaded door to bypass the filter.

-Skip

 

[AdamZ]

You say vis is pretty good but the most common problem with snow is that the visibility can get really bad really quick.

Excellent point! Flying into snow is not like flying into a cloud. you generally see the cloud ahead. Snow is often light for a few moments the BAM! Its like your in a .... well snow globe! it can seriously hamper vis. Or it can be beautiful.

As for the question is flyin in snow flying in to KI? Well the anwer is simple if you fly in it an every thing is ok then no. If you crash and die the NTSB and FAA will find a way to blame it on you with one of thier catchall prohibitions.

 

[Matthew]

I haven't flown in it yet, but here is a personal observation from about a month ago.

Temps/dewpoints right at freezing, light snow flurries to the west. The two a/c that flew through the flurries and landed within about 10 minutes of each other had picked up clear ice.

I was pre-flighting one of them right after it landed and noticed the ice on the leading edges. Maybe not even 1mm thick and only about 1/2" wide strip, but it was there. Both A/C had been flown by CFIs and students on VFR training flights.

There must have been just enough mist mixed with the snow and the temps were probably just right. Neither CFI noticed the mist, or ice, until I pointed it out. It was already melting when I first saw it myself.

I decided to reschedule.

Matt

 

[4CornerFlyer]

I think there's a difference between flying through a big snow storm and a local snow shower. A small area of snow that you can see the extent of will not likely present a problem either to visibility or icing. A hundred mile storm system will do both.

Jon

 

[gismo]

I think there's a difference between flying through a big snow storm and a local snow shower. A small area of snow that you can see the extent of will not likely present a problem either to visibility or icing.

True, but only because you can simply go around the small event. And while I don't know about snow storms in AZ, in places I have been a small event can turn into a large event rather quickly if the clouds are already in place.

A hundred mile storm system will do both.

Jon

Can do both, but not necessarily will do both.

 

[Henning]

Ok - so its actually snowing outside. Its awesome, one of the normal 3 snow storms (if you want to call them that) per year.

So - clouds are high up, snow is falling. Vis is pretty good. Would flying in snow accumulate ice? Either way, is flight into snow considered flight into ice? I'd like to fly if I could, its pretty (I'd stay in the pattern).

Couple things, be ready to go IFR at any moment, vis can go to hell QUICK, although with high clouds it's not as likely. The term for legal purposes is Known Icing. Snow, while it is ice, rarely leads to icing, however a combination of circumstances like a warm plane and heavy wet snow can buy you a layer. So the answer is "not necessarily". On a nice lightly snowy day, a flight can be a beautiful thing, but always beware, IMC is just a heartbeat away.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ok - so its actually snowing outside. Its awesome, one of the normal 3 snow storms (if you want to call them that) per year.

So - clouds are high up, snow is falling. Vis is pretty good. Would flying in snow accumulate ice? Either way, is flight into snow considered flight into ice? I'd like to fly if I could, its pretty (I'd stay in the pattern).

With snow, what you need to watch for most is melting and re-freezing. A cold airplane going into snow with temps well below freezing? No problem.

A warm airplane may melt some of the snow, and after the airplane is cooled down the snow may re-freeze into ice. Also, "wet" snow that you'll probably see at temps close to freezing will stick and again, may refreeze.

The other thing is visibility. If it's still P6SM in all directions, OK. Just be sure to watch like a hawk and if you see one area where you can't see as far as the rest, get down NOW or be ready to go IFR. I don't know what NM snow storms are like, but if they're widespread you may be able to get a good idea of vis from surrounding airports' METARs.

Of course, I see that most of us giving you advice are folks from the great white north. Your snowstorms may not produce enough to cause visibility problems at all... Go to the airport and ask an experienced pilot from your area!

 

[Lawreston]

Suffice it to say
That on this day,
I went to say, "Hi"
But not to fly.

HR(12-16-05)

 

[Henning]

Suffice it to say
That on this day,
I went to say, "Hi"
But not to fly.

HR(12-16-05)

Harley, IIRC, that's a new paint job and glass (and a bunch of other parts new, used, and massaged). Get a good cover for your whole plane, it will more than pay for itself over a couple of years, especially the windscreen.

 

[Lawreston]

Harley, IIRC, that's a new paint job and glass (and a bunch of other parts new, used, and massaged). Get a good cover for your whole plane, it will more than pay for itself over a couple of years, especially the windscreen.

I've yet to absorb the text in the LOGs to know every detail of reconstruction; hence, I'm not certain the extent of repainting. The windscreen -- front and sides -- are new; not certain about rear. The illustrated storm -- December 16 -- was the more severe of our, thus-far, soft Maine winter. I had a cockpit cover made(Sunbrella) locally after my original purchase;not certain of its current status. I'll soon be moving it to Wiscasset IWI and am seriously considering purchase of a T-Hangar(41' x 26' IIRC) for the bird. Hmmm; bet I could slide my Austin-Healey right under one of the wings during winter(and securely leave the GPS 296 in the Gizmo panel-mount).

Photo was August of 2000 at Bowdoinham 08B where -- only 5.2sm from my house -- she might spend some summer nights(with cockpit cover, of course).
Other photo was May 15, 2005, setting up for DW #14(obviously, shot from the right seat)

HR(anyone want to come to a hangar party?)