It's on... pilots at UAL apologize for their management

gibbons

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Wow, scathing. Takes a lot to do this to your boss, but at least someone has the guts to do it.
 
My December 27 flight to Italy via Frankfurt on United was canned at the last minute. I'll discuss my odyssey more, later, but apparently they canned TWO triple-7s going to Frankfurt (no idea about other destinations) and I got caught in the middle. My bags went in a totally different direction, and just tonight, New Years Eve, did I get reunited with my bags. (I left Thursday night).

Charlie Foxtrot doesn't even begin to cover it...
 
Wow is right. The mgmt has been caught redhanded with their hand in the cookie jar. The pilots get an atta boy.
 
I'm not sure what the pilots are trying to accomplish here other than attempting to get the flying pubic on their side. But I'm not sure if the victims of canceled flights care whether it's management's fault or the employees' fault. They just see it United Airlines' fault. The tone of the letter also does not suggest that there is any effort being made to improve the situation. It would be logical for the reader to conclude that the same situation is likely in the future and that it might be a good idea to pursue other options. Is this really what the employees want?
 
This is interesting. Good for them. I think commercial pilots have taken it on the chin for too long. Personally, as someone who unfortunately flys more commercially than personally, I would like my professional pilot, cardiologist, and if necessary neurologist to be very happy and well compensated.
 
iNverted: If it forces UA's hand and makes them fix the problem, then that's a potential positive outcome. We've seen how effective "just keeping quiet to see what happens" has been.
 
Holy crap. That letter is flat out incredible.


I would like my professional pilot, cardiologist, and if necessary neurologist to be very happy and well compensated.

The guy who shined my shoes at KBOS day before yesterday makes more in a year than a first year FO's (my) annual guarantee. So does the girl at the Chinese food place. So do I, but I have a lot of early mornings and late nights. The high school drop outs neglecting their jobs at the TSA checkpoints get paid more than a lot of 1st or even 2nd year FOs. Gotta love this FUBAR industry.
 
Holy crap. That letter is flat out incredible.




The guy who shined my shoes at KBOS day before yesterday makes more in a year than a first year FO's (my) annual guarantee. So does the girl at the Chinese food place. So do I, but I have a lot of early mornings and late nights. The high school drop outs neglecting their jobs at the TSA checkpoints get paid more than a lot of 1st or even 2nd year FOs. Gotta love this FUBAR industry.
Tool.
 
The high school drop outs neglecting their jobs at the TSA checkpoints get paid more than a lot of 1st or even 2nd year FOs. Gotta love this FUBAR industry.

Yes, but they have complete control of your two D-cell maglite, so don't forget that! (reference to another thread)
 
Holy crap. That letter is flat out incredible.




The guy who shined my shoes at KBOS day before yesterday makes more in a year than a first year FO's (my) annual guarantee. So does the girl at the Chinese food place. So do I, but I have a lot of early mornings and late nights. The high school drop outs neglecting their jobs at the TSA checkpoints get paid more than a lot of 1st or even 2nd year FOs. Gotta love this FUBAR industry.

Yes, but they have complete control of your two D-cell maglite, so don't forget that! (reference to another thread)

From an airline pilot:
Six years after the terrorist attacks of 2001, airport security remains a theater of the absurd. The changes put in place following the September 11th catastrophe have been drastic, and largely of two kinds: those practical and effective, and those irrational, wasteful and pointless.

...
Yet that’s exactly what we’ve been doing. The three-ounce container rule is silly enough — after all, what’s to stop somebody from carrying several small bottles each full of the same substance — but consider for a moment the hypocrisy of T.S.A.’s confiscation policy. At every concourse checkpoint you’ll see a bin or barrel brimming with contraband containers taken from passengers for having exceeded the volume limit. Now, the assumption has to be that the materials in those containers are potentially hazardous. If not, why were they seized in the first place? But if so, why are they dumped unceremoniously into the trash? They are not quarantined or handed over to the bomb squad; they are simply thrown away. The agency seems to be saying that it knows these things are harmless. But it’s going to steal them anyway, and either you accept it or you don’t fly.
...

Conned and frightened, our nation demands not actual security, but security spectacle. And although a reasonable percentage of passengers, along with most security experts, would concur such theater serves no useful purpose, there has been surprisingly little outrage. In that regard, maybe we’ve gotten exactly the system we deserve.

http://jetlagged.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/the-airport-security-follies/index.html

There was a comment I heard that our government wasn't doing the right thing to fight the war on terrorism because they didn't ask Americans to sacrifice for the war - like how they had pointless scrap drives in WW II. Our sacrifice is to put up with the security nonsense dreamed up by and and enforced by idiots.

As he hints above, we know if he says the airport workers aren't screened the outcry will be to SCREEN THEM! Just like the recurring story that air freight and GA doesn't get checked.

I hope we can get sanity back and unwind some of this stupidity in the next decade.
 
iNverted: If it forces UA's hand and makes them fix the problem, then that's a potential positive outcome. We've seen how effective "just keeping quiet to see what happens" has been.
I don't see how it's going to force UA's hand. I do see how it might encourage customers to go somewhere else where there isn't so much discontent and unrest. That's all I'm saying. I have a lot of sympathy for the pilots, in fact I make my living as a pilot and I know quite a few people who work at United.
 
From an airline pilot:


There was a comment I heard that our government wasn't doing the right thing to fight the war on terrorism because they didn't ask Americans to sacrifice for the war - like how they had pointless scrap drives in WW II. Our sacrifice is to put up with the security nonsense dreamed up by and and enforced by idiots.

As he hints above, we know if he says the airport workers aren't screened the outcry will be to SCREEN THEM! Just like the recurring story that air freight and GA doesn't get checked.

I hope we can get sanity back and unwind some of this stupidity in the next decade.

That blog is wonderful. I had never thought of that, but that is a both frightening and absurd realization. I love it, too, that at smaller airports, instead of making them unceremoniously throw contraband items in the garbage, they just give them to the gate agent who puts them in the passengers' carry-ons which are already on the plane. So it's not about keeping items that are greater than an arbitrary size off a plane...it's about jerking people around and making them unpack every bag they brought, only to repack it a little different.

At the smaller airports, the don't x-ray checked baggage...they hand screen it all, and run their little explosives analyzer over it. Yesterday they had a bag here alarm for explosives. They checked it three times on one machine, and another three on the second machine. The guy who owned it had apparently stepped out for some food, since we were massively delayed. After about 45 minutes of looking for the guy, they just put the bag on the airplane, said it was such a trace amount that they weren't concerned, questioned him briefly as he went through screening before boarding, and never said another word about the 6 alarms they got for explosives. They did, however, make the same guy take his tube of toothpaste out of his carry on and have the gate agent put it into is bag of explosives for him. Doesn't that just give you the warm fuzzies about what these guys are doing day in and day out?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Tool.

I'm a bit lost on this response. Who are you calling a tool?

I am too. For the record, I wasn't complaining about my pay...it's what I signed up for. I love flying the Beech, I wouldn't trade it for a thing. Sure the pay sucks and the hours are horrible, but it's the only way I can get to fly anywhere near to as much as I would like. I wasn't complaining...just observing.
 
I do see how it might encourage customers to go somewhere else where there isn't so much discontent and unrest.

Well, since upper management's "bonuses" are at least theoretically based on the performance of the airline, that is sort of the point. Things are not going to improve around UAL until management changes the way they think about running the airline.
 
Well, since upper management's "bonuses" are at least theoretically based on the performance of the airline, that is sort of the point.
In a way I understand what you are saying, Greg, but in another way I see is a a public ****ing contest with no winner in sight.

Oh wow, I got censored!
 
Holy crap. That letter is flat out incredible.

The guy who shined my shoes at KBOS day before yesterday makes more in a year than a first year FO's (my) annual guarantee. So does the girl at the Chinese food place. So do I, but I have a lot of early mornings and late nights. The high school drop outs neglecting their jobs at the TSA checkpoints get paid more than a lot of 1st or even 2nd year FOs. Gotta love this FUBAR industry.
True, but they're probably now at the peak of their earnings with no upward mobility.
 
You can get kicked in the head only so many times before you start fighting back. If you have ideas that don't involve the public, you can pass them on. But I am not in a position to do anything about it.
 
I never thought I was safer with TSA or all the stupid rules they have. Like zero tolerance, how does confiscating a keychain knife or a nail clipper make flying safer from hi-jackers? Flying naked, without luggage and carryons is the only way to be safe and let's face it, there are people who shouldn't be naked even in the dark. It is all a show for US; the ones who want to see "action"; proof that something is being done.
The letter is says what most of the average joes believe, the corporate heads get the gold while the rest get the dirt. Even if the salary amounts were half what was stated, it's still an obscene amount. We see this throughout corporate America and it IS about time to complain about it.
 
I never thought I was safer with TSA or all the stupid rules they have. Like zero tolerance, how does confiscating a keychain knife or a nail clipper make flying safer from hi-jackers? Flying naked, without luggage and carryons is the only way to be safe and let's face it, there are people who shouldn't be naked even in the dark. It is all a show for US; the ones who want to see "action"; proof that something is being done.
The letter is says what most of the average joes believe, the corporate heads get the gold while the rest get the dirt. Even if the salary amounts were half what was stated, it's still an obscene amount. We see this throughout corporate America and it IS about time to complain about it.
Try being a CEO, then decide if it's too much money.
 
I never thought I was safer with TSA or all the stupid rules they have. Like zero tolerance, how does confiscating a keychain knife or a nail clipper make flying safer from hi-jackers? Flying naked, without luggage and carryons is the only way to be safe and let's face it, there are people who shouldn't be naked even in the dark. It is all a show for US; the ones who want to see "action"; proof that something is being done...

Even flying naked, and unconscious wouldn't be enough. James Bond could make a weapon out of the passenger seat bracket. There are oxygen bottles and such in the cabin, you know.

As this guy says what saves airliners now is the fact that there are 150 human beings in the cabin who will not put up with you, now that they know you intend suicide. A couple of those may be professionals with real guns.

Taking away everyone's toothpaste and water doesn't change a thing.
 
Try being a CEO, then decide if it's too much money.

It most certainly is too much money. You think the pressure to perform on the job is oppressive? The CEO can ignore that job entirely walk away with a ton of cash and move on to next job.

It's one of the few jobs where you can be totally incompetent and still hang on for a year or more before you get a huge pot of money to leave. Besides that, if you knew how much of the time they and the boards spend working on their own compensation...
 
One of my faves was the discovery that the 3 ounce rule doesn't apply to how much you have, but how much the container might originally have held. My son lost his toothpaste because the tube was marked "7 oz" -- but it was 90 percent empty.
 
This whole TSA crap has gone way too far. That is an organization that has way too much power and way too little oversight. And as far as I am concerned, contributes very little to the safety of the system.
 
This whole TSA crap has gone way too far. That is an organization that has way too much power and way too little oversight. And as far as I am concerned, contributes very little to the safety of the system.

Absolutely.
 
This whole TSA crap has gone way too far. That is an organization that has way too much power and way too little oversight. And as far as I am concerned, contributes very little to the safety of the system.

May I use this statement? I'm even willing to give you the deserved credit as it is the most poinent (sp?) statement yet.
 
Try being a CEO, then decide if it's too much money.
Then the U S President deserves a HUGE pay raise and I doubt ANYONE but him thinks so. And while we're at it, how about our soldiers in harms way, or our police, or our firemen. I'd challenge any CEO who's getting 25Mill to trade places for even a day with any of them.
Nah, they are way over compensated for what they do and how much time on the job they do it. And worse yet, once a CEO, you have an almost automatic ride into other corporate boardrooms. You've proven yourself and now everyone wants to ride along.
 
One of my faves was the discovery that the 3 ounce rule doesn't apply to how much you have, but how much the container might originally have held. My son lost his toothpaste because the tube was marked "7 oz" -- but it was 90 percent empty.

Reminds me of the time I was returning from a cruise and had a half empty mickey of scotch that I had forgot about in my carry on. They wanted to confiscate it but I said no way and drank it!
 
Reminds me of the time I was returning from a cruise and had a half empty mickey of scotch that I had forgot about in my carry on. They wanted to confiscate it but I said no way and drank it!

That'll show them!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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