It's Official, Blue Angels are grounded....

The irony is we don't have money to give ... we're borrowing money to give away. Very philanthropic, but fiscally stupid.

you must have information on this you are not sharing? So spending $1.5 billion to save another $2 trillion dollar war doesn't appeal to you? Forget the neighbors house is on fire, I have a mortgage to worry about, shut off the water.
 
The irony is we don't have money to give ... we're borrowing money to give away. Very philanthropic, but fiscally stupid.

you must have information on this you are not sharing? So spending $1.5 billion to save another $2 trillion dollar war doesn't appeal to you? Forget the neighbors house is on fire, I have a mortgage to worry about, shut off the water.

really? how far in debt are we? is there some surplus of cash we don't know about?

what $2 trillion war are you talking about? Sounds like Chicago protection money to me
 
really? how far in debt are we? is there some surplus of cash we don't know about?

what $2 trillion war are you talking about? Sounds like Chicago protection money to me

Iraq and Afghanistan. Protection money...Yes, That is exactly what it is in some cases. You fight the battles you can win and on timing of your choice. I think this stuff is too complicated to make one line statements if it is good or bad. However more generally, I agree lets cut the freaking hell out of the budget and lets do it with some business acumen.

If you need to cut a budget sort the budget by size of line items and start with the biggest...that takes us to military; that takes us next to law enforcement and jails; and work are way down the line and if we are really doing it then I'm ok to cut all the way down to the bottom line items.

I saw video last night that we give $65 million to two brothers in Florida to produce sugar and we have a special law that requires Americans to pay 4x the amount of the world price on sugar to enrich these two brothers. So we not only paying tax money to these fools but we are being hit a double invisible whammy with higher wholesale and retail prices. These guys are so powerful they simply picked up the phone and got Bill Clinton on line simple as that. ...that is power.
 
Law enforcement and jails do not come after military. Entitlements do. I think even servicing our debt comes before law enforcement and jails.
 
Law enforcement and jails do not come after military. Entitlements do.
You could argue that entitlements are the largest period. One of the fastest growing sectors of the DoD budget is benefits. Every year, benefit spending within the DoD grows larger and larger.

Problem is, to date, NO politician has wanted to deal with the fallout from seriously reducing military benefits. With the drawdown post-Iraq and Afghanistan and force-shaping going on, I suspect it is inevitable that the military retirement system and overall benefits are next on the chopping block.
 
Were this in the Spin Zone I would point out how wonderfully ironic it is that the people who shout the loudest about the government cutting costs also whine the most when one of their favorite programs gets cut.

But we aren't in the Spin Zone, so I won't do that.
 
You could argue that entitlements are the largest period. One of the fastest growing sectors of the DoD budget is benefits. Every year, benefit spending within the DoD grows larger and larger.

Problem is, to date, NO politician has wanted to deal with the fallout from seriously reducing military benefits. With the drawdown post-Iraq and Afghanistan and force-shaping going on, I suspect it is inevitable that the military retirement system and overall benefits are next on the chopping block.

Problem with benefits is VA disability. No one wants to touch it because everyone wants our vets to get the disability rating they deserve. What the public doesn't realize is most vets are getting disability for common ailments. Hundreds of dollars a month for things like athletes foot, erectile dysfunction, heart burn, skin diseases, tinnitus, etc etc. Sleep Apnea was a big one (50 %)that guys tried to get when I was in. Now with PTSD the VA does'nt even investigate the events that the servicemember is claiming. It's easier to just cut a check. You have guys who never saw real combat getting PTSD money. The pay for that is as much as my retirement check. We have vets that really need money from combat injuries, unfortunately far too many are abusing the system. It won't be long before we can't even fight wars because of the rising cost of benefits.

"Ten years ago, DoD spent an average of $70,000 per year on pay and benefits for each soldier, sailor, airman or marine, not counting the cost of benefits paid through other agencies, like education and health programs funded through the Department of Veterans Affairs or tax benefits handled by Treasury. Today, according to CSBA, that number is $110,000, and still growing."
 
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Weird culture shift. My old man wouldn't go anywhere near the VA, nor would any of his friends. They all served in WWII. We finally did put him in a VA home when his Alzheimers got really bad. Godsend that was.

Now you guys are complaining about all these vets going to the VA for everything. Culture shift.
 
After separation someone told me I had to register with the VA as part of the out process. Said I had six months or so and if I didn't I'd not be able to later...so I did.

That was 16 years ago and I've never been back. Maybe it'll be worth something later.
 
It's the Obama grand plan....... Cut the high visible items in government

LOL. "high visible"?? Right. Half the people in this county are are not intelligent enough to engage in honest, smart political discussion. And when I say "half", I'm making no reference to party lines. But at least I know which half you fall into.
 
This cut is far more than the Blues and the T-clones. Operational fighter squadrons are being grounded till the end of the year, the USAF Weapons School is standing down for the rest of the year. This is a drastic and far-reaching cut that will have impact on the health of our military and capability to employ air power for much longer than the grounding.
 
Weird culture shift. My old man wouldn't go anywhere near the VA, nor would any of his friends. They all served in WWII. We finally did put him in a VA home when his Alzheimers got really bad. Godsend that was.

Now you guys are complaining about all these vets going to the VA for everything. Culture shift.

You got that right. I read an article a few months ago about record VA claims right now. Said back in WWII vets were claiming 2-3 things. Vets these days are claiming 3 times that amount.

For example, my grandfather got 20 % disability after WWII for a bullet wound in the wrist and one to his thigh. I know people getting out these days with 60 % disability that have no wounds and didn't go through the hell that my grandfather did. It's all about getting as much money from the system as you can these days.

I'd say it's a definite culture shift and it's one that's going to bankrupt the DOD. Some say that all future wars the indirect costs will exceed the direct costs. I agree.
 
Latest word is that the air shows will continue...but on a far smaller scale:


CardboardJet.jpg
 
Right, the President himself, having nothing else to do, is personally making all of the detailed budget decisions of every single governmental department and bureau. Unless you agree with the cuts in which case he had nothing to do with it. :rofl:

How dare you figger that out...
 
For example, my grandfather got 20 % disability after WWII for a bullet wound in the wrist and one to his thigh. I know people getting out these days with 60 % disability that have no wounds and didn't go through the hell that my grandfather did. It's all about getting as much money from the system as you can these days.

To some extent it is the VA buerocracy that forces folks to claim their disabilities when they check into the system. If you dont claim your disability on separation, you have a much harder case later on. So if you have that back-pain and worn out discs from high-G maneuvers, you better put it in your paperwork right away so 20 years later if it in fact comes back to bite you, you dont have to fight them (when they will claim that you damages are not service related and acquired during your post-military civilian life).
Met a guy who is 100% VA disabled yet manages to maintain a first class medical and fly or Delta. According to him, his pension is the dumbest waste of taxpayer dollars ever and a disgrace considering the vets who have to fight the VA on justified stuff.
 
That's how you improve a budget - one small step at a time.

Watch the nickels and dimes and the dollars take care of themselves.


I think the biggest flaw, based on my limited understanding, is there is no incentive to come in under budget. Further, the danger in such a system (an incentive to save system) is the budget manager would sacrifice service to others for personal gain.
 
weilke;1140676.......Met a guy who is 100% VA disabled yet manages to maintain a first class medical and fly or Delta. According to him said:
Agreed..... Dumb, Dumb, Dumb..:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
 
You could argue that entitlements are the largest period. One of the fastest growing sectors of the DoD budget is benefits. Every year, benefit spending within the DoD grows larger and larger.

Problem is, to date, NO politician has wanted to deal with the fallout from seriously reducing military benefits. With the drawdown post-Iraq and Afghanistan and force-shaping going on, I suspect it is inevitable that the military retirement system and overall benefits are next on the chopping block.

Not while soilders are in harms way but don't fear this country has never failed to screw the serviceman immedately after we pull out.
 
We were spending 20 billion a year for air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's fraud, waste and abuse at its finest in the military. .......sit down and find ways to circumvent some of these contractors who are ripping off the U.S. taxpayer.

H A L I B U R T I N !!!
 
Do you have a source for this? Sounds like BS to me.

Yeah, the source is me. I sat through the class. The instructor came in, rattled off like a hundred things you can claim and then said, Now raise your hand if you're going to claim disability! I looked around and every single person had their hands up with a smile on their face. These aren't people retiring either, most were young first time enlistees. You can't tell me some 22 yr old SGT has disability problems as a result of 4 yrs in an Army Aviation unit. Maybe I'm old fashioned but when I see a Disabled Vet license plate, Acid Reflux, ED, Athletes Foot or even Sleep Apnea aren't things that come to mind. Like I said, it's about getting as much money as you can before you get out. Soon these young enlisted folks won't have a guaranteed paycheck anymore and that couple hundred extra a month will help out when they're searching for a civilian job.

What's funny is how they try and push it on you these days. I was getting my annual flight physical years ago in the Army. The female Doc asks, if I have any back pain? I said, no ma'am. She says, Oh you will, and you need to get that entered in your health records so you can get disability for it. We have a system in place where guys get paid for back pain because flying helicopters caused it, then they retire, go on to a Department of the Army Civilian job with a medical waiver and continue to do the job that gave them the disability in the first place. Hilarious! Kinda like the above example of 100 % disability and flying for Delta.

I was sitting in my retirement benefits brief one day and the instructor is pushing the claims process. She says Can you all believe that there are people out there who serve 20 ys and don't claim anything? You can't be in the same condition you were when you joined. I remember thinking, yeah lady, I'm heavier, don't run as fast and have far less hair. That doesn't mean I need disability for it. Maybe I'm just lucky I have the same eye sight, hearing, and basic physical condition of when I joined because I sure am in the minority when it comes to not collecting VA disability.

The fact is personnel costs with all their entitlements are spiraling out of control. As Fearless said above, the last few years DOD has been trying to find a way to cut retirement costs. I've read articles that want service members to stay in for 30 yrs or have some sort of 401 K program. One guy said that we have a system that allows people to retire at 38, then go onto a high paying civilian job. He's right, but it's the way it's always been. Thankfully I'm already out and don't have to worry about staying in til 30 yrs to collect. Although TRICARE costs are rising I still pay a only fraction in health care compared to what civilians pay.
 
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While the Blues and T-birds are certainly good recruiting tools, in the DoD fiscal sense, recruiting is NOT a priority right now compared to some other more pressing items (like paying for food, fuel and repair parts for ships and aircraft currently deployed).

Our 'Force-Shaping' tools are in full swing - we are looking to boot more people than take them in right now. At some point the pendulum will shift again, but for now, recruiting is not a problem that needs money thrown at it.

How much does the DoD spend on advertising with NASCAR? I would much rather do away with that. I really resent my tax dollars going toward lining the pockets of already-rich entertainers. How effective is THAT mode of "advertising"? Does seeing "Army" or whatever on the side of a racecar induce many quality people to enlist?

Wells
 
How much does the DoD spend on advertising with NASCAR? I would much rather do away with that. I really resent my tax dollars going toward lining the pockets of already-rich entertainers. How effective is THAT mode of "advertising"? Does seeing "Army" or whatever on the side of a racecar induce many quality people to enlist?

Wells

Pretty sure it is less than $60M

As far as effectiveness, that is difficult to gauge. I would say this, NASCAR appeals to a larger recruiting base than the Blue Angels. Most of us here value the aerial demonstrations because we are pilots. More Americans follow the NASCAR circuit than the air show circuit.

BUT, that said, I wouldn't shed any tears if they did pull the plug on sponsoring NASCAR.
 
Pretty sure it is less than $60M

80mil/year on sports sponsorships like nascar and bass fishing :eek: The 'Army' nascar deal is only 8.4mil/year.

Thank god the money is put to good use:

that the National Guard's $26.5 million taxpayer-funded contract with Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s No. 88 NASCAR team resulted in the National Guard being "contacted by more than 24,800 individuals expressing interest in joining." Of these contacts, the National Guard spokesperson said that "20 were qualified candidates and that none joined."
 
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