is your head in the cockpit

[hotprops]

with all the glass panels,ipads, gpsa,b in ,out sideways, tcas, live weather ,blue-tooth headsets , hooked to phones, ipods and on and on and on .also pilots who fly once a month cant keep up proficiency in knobdicking all the electronic goodness . and they are going to plow into some poor guy just out for a nice ride in his 1946 cub on a cauv day. cause they dont look outside anymore . yes i had the 180 knot fully equipped aircraft but used it for long legs ifr in the clag . yes i have a 46 cub and a while ago at my own private airport was chastised by a unauthorized guest after we both landed. i was advised that he almost hit me and he was ****ed that i was not squawking and talking .when i told him that i dont have a electric system he was shocked!! to add i saw him the whole time as he was flying a leer60 approach in a 182 and i was a tight as i could get . i am afraid all these kids who still play video games are going over time deliver some grim stats re mid-airs.just saying

 

[Lachlan]

I hope you also told that guy that it's a private strip and he was not invited to land there, providing it was not an emergency for him.

 

[Bonchie]

Grumpy old guy who wants to slag on technology. Haven't seen this thread before.

 

[Unit74]

Grumpy old guy who wants to slag on technology. Haven't seen this thread before.

 

[James331]

with all the glass panels,ipads, gpsa,b in ,out sideways, tcas, live weather ,blue-tooth headsets , hooked to phones, ipods and on and on and on .also pilots who fly once a month cant keep up proficiency in knobdicking all the electronic goodness . and they are going to plow into some poor guy just out for a nice ride in his 1946 cub on a cauv day. cause they dont look outside anymore . yes i had the 180 knot fully equipped aircraft but used it for long legs ifr in the clag . yes i have a 46 cub and a while ago at my own private airport was chastised by a unauthorized guest after we both landed. i was advised that he almost hit me and he was ****ed that i was not squawking and talking .when i told him that i dont have a electric system he was shocked!! to add i saw him the whole time as he was flying a leer60 approach in a 182 and i was a tight as i could get . i am afraid all these kids who still play video games are going over time deliver some grim stats re mid-airs.just saying

So this dude landed on your private strip?!

Did you let him take off?
Call the cops and have him trespassed?
Have him bring a trailer and remove the plane that way?

With sue happy people the way they are, plus his attitude, plus lack of airmanship and insurance liability, I'd have videoed it, called the cops and insisted that due to liability concerns and possible damage to your property that the aircraft could only leave by ground and with a police officer present, as he was a trespasser.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Given the number of advanced planes flying around and the number of mid-airs we hear about, I don't think there is empirical evidence to support the claim.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I understand the sentiment, but geez that was a difficult read without proper capitalization or punctuation!

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I understand the sentiment, but geez that was a difficult read without proper capitalization or punctuation!

Yeah, I don't understand people who do that. A millennial thing, I think

 

[TexDeuce]

I don't care for guys buzzing around in the pattern with no radio or transponder either. Get a handheld at least and have some respect for your fellow aviators in the sky.

 

[Timbeck2]

We need a horn of some sort on airplanes. I was taxiing back to the hanger one day and an older guy in an RV-7 was blocking the taxiway to my hanger on his way out. His head was down fiddling with his glass cockpit so he didn't see me and he wasn't on any frequency. He must have dorked around for almost 5 minutes before he looked up and realized that he wasn't the only airplane on the airfield.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I don't care for guys buzzing around in the pattern with no radio or transponder either. Get a handheld at least and have some respect for your fellow aviators in the sky.

I would submit that you might be more of a danger to the guy without radios than he is to you.

 

[pigpenracing]

I don't care for guys buzzing around in the pattern with no radio or transponder either. Get a handheld at least and have some respect for your fellow aviators in the sky.

Well you can go suck a fat one.... Respect???? I am flying within the rules. That is the joy of flying my Cub. No radio, no headset and wind in your face. Here I was buzzing the lake today about 10 feet above the water. Just don't get any better

 

[oregonboy109]

I don't care for guys buzzing around in the pattern with no radio or transponder either. Get a handheld at least and have some respect for your fellow aviators in the sky.

Eyes outside, standard pattern entry, and correct pattern altitude is more important to reducing potential conflicts IMO. A guy flying an entry on base, for example, with his eyes glued to an ipad/gps/insert distraction here is a much bigger liability, radios or not, than a guy without radios flying a standard pattern with his eyes outside looking for traffic.

 

[James331]

Eyes outside, standard pattern entry, and correct pattern altitude is more important to reducing potential conflicts IMO. A guy flying an entry on base, for example, with his eyes glued to an ipad/gps/insert distraction here is a much bigger liability, radios or not, than a guy without radios flying a standard pattern with his eyes outside looking for traffic.

 

[mscard88]

We need a horn of some sort on airplanes. .

The ATR 72 had a horn! Push a button on the overhead (think it was up there) and we'd hear it in the cockpit. No one outside could hear it though apparently as the rampers never responded to us or probably just ignored us. Also had square cup holders. So our round Styrofoam cups wouldn't fit. Guess it's a French thing.

 

[Twin_Flyer]

I don't care for guys buzzing around in the pattern with no radio or transponder either. Get a handheld at least and have some respect for your fellow aviators in the sky.

 

[Bonchie]

Eyes outside, standard pattern entry, and correct pattern altitude is more important to reducing potential conflicts IMO. A guy flying an entry on base, for example, with his eyes glued to an ipad/gps/insert distraction here is a much bigger liability, radios or not, than a guy without radios flying a standard pattern with his eyes outside looking for traffic.

Because we all know old guys flying Cubs always fly perfect patterns at pattern altitude

 

[Lachlan]

Well you can go suck a fat one.... Respect???? I am flying within the rules.View attachment 45383 That is the joy of flying my Cub. No radio, no headset and wind in your face. Here I was buzzing the lake today about 10 feet above the water. Just don't get any better

You cheap, dangerous liability! If you had GPS on that thing you'd know EXACTLY how high above the water you were, and not have to rely on "about 10 feet." Where's your Stratus, your Garmin and your ADS-B in/out? You're dangerous, Maverick!

 

[fiveoboy01]

In my experience it's usually the old guys in the NORDO airplanes that really do the dumb stuff... They don't follow standard pattern entry procedures, don't look when they take the runway, cut you off in the pattern, etc etc...

 

[James331]

In my experience it's usually the old guys in the NORDO airplanes that really do the dumb stuff... They don't follow standard pattern entry procedures, don't look when they take the runway, cut you off in the pattern, etc etc...

I take it you would be a fan of my 500AGL enroute altitude to a straight in approach at the airport I hangar at eh?

 

[MauleSkinner]

In my experience it's usually the old guys in the NORDO airplanes that really do the dumb stuff... They don't follow standard pattern entry procedures, don't look when they take the runway, cut you off in the pattern, etc etc...

Your experience is different than mine.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I take it you would be a fan of my 500AGL enroute altitude to a straight in approach at the airport I hangar at eh?

I probably would yes

 

[Cooter]

Your experience is different than mine.

I don't really care much one way or another in this debate, but I have to say, the closest I've come to mid-airs in civilian flying was at a rural field with several crop dusters. They broke the rules, never talked and were a real nuisance. Twice I had simo-runs on final with those guys sneaking in under the pattern and had one land over the top of me while lined up on the runway. I think they must have kept their radios on a different freq. to coordinate their re-fuels or re-fills, they were never on Unicom.

 

[CRAFT]

Well you can go suck a fat one.... Respect???? I am flying within the rules.View attachment 45383 That is the joy of flying my Cub. No radio, no headset and wind in your face. Here I was buzzing the lake today about 10 feet above the water. Just don't get any better

So you were flying within the rules buzzing the lake 10 feet above the water? Somehow that seems less than the over an unpopulated area minimum altitude, assuming there were no boats on that lake, which would change the altitude and maybe add a 91.13 issue.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Where else would I put it?

Yeah, I don't understand people who do that. A millennial thing, I think

Nah, just a lack of education/effort.

 

[Lachlan]

So you were flying within the rules buzzing the lake 10 feet above the water? Somehow that seems less than the over an unpopulated area minimum altitude, assuming there were no boats on that lake, which would change the altitude and maybe add a 91.13 issue.

I presume that you are assuming that he is not equipped with floats? (You can slap yourself now.)

 

[fiveoboy01]

So you were flying within the rules buzzing the lake 10 feet above the water? Somehow that seems less than the over an unpopulated area minimum altitude, assuming there were no boats on that lake, which would change the altitude and maybe add a 91.13 issue.

You have no clue what you are talking about. The "other than congested area" rule of 500 feet AGL doesn't apply to water nor sparsely populated areas.

Over open water he can fly as low as he wants provided he's 500 feet from a boat/person/stricture.

 

[TexDeuce]

I would submit that you might be more of a danger to the guy without radios than he is to you.

Yes, someone using the radio and looking out the cockpit coordinating locations with other pilots is more dangerous than some guy buzzing around the pattern not talking or listening to anyone. I can't compete with that logic.

 

[TexDeuce]

Well you can go suck a fat one.... Respect???? I am flying within the rules.View attachment 45383 That is the joy of flying my Cub. No radio, no headset and wind in your face. Here I was buzzing the lake today about 10 feet above the water. Just don't get any better

I can burn the US flag and tell a random stranger on the sidewalk to go F himself. It's in the rules! High five bro!

Doesn't make it right or respectful.

 

[ircphoenix]

Why are radios and transponders required for operations in Bravo?

Why are radios and transponders required for operations in Charlie?"

Why are radios required for operations in Delta?

I'd posit that the requirements for location reporting and communications equipment is to keep abreast of other airplanes in the vicinity. So that equipment's function is to keep you safe by being able to communicate in those more congested areas.

So I feel pretty safe in saying that operating NORDO is more inherently dangerous than operating with a radio, since, for some reason, operations *without* that equipment are prohibited.

Now you can like or dislike operating with a radio. That's your call. But making a statement that flying without a radio is just as safe as flying with a radio is ludicrous and an exercise in denial.

 

[pigpenracing]

I have a radio in this one because it belongs there. I don't think one belongs in my 1940 Cub though.

 

[Silvaire]

I think we should all be thankful we live in a place where it's possible to even do any of this because in most of the rest of the world you can't. So maybe be should stop bitchin' and hairpin' on each other and admit that despite being dicks we are all blessed for some unknown reason.

 

[hotprops]

my thesis was about "heads in the cockpit" due to a over abundance of electronic equipment {read glass cockpit}. and the complexity involved to use them properly as well as the required practice to make them work. a transponder and com are set and forget so not part of this discussion. also GA flight hours are now half of what they were at the peak. so current data verses yesteryear is very much different and can not be computed into usable now vs than flight hours with any degree of accuracy.
I have been into class b,c,and d airports in my cub . a simple call ahead to the cab ,circle cab,use light signals works every time .the controllers kind of like it and get to "log" real light signal time.
It has been proven that cellphones and cars dont mix. and is a excellent example of what i speak.
the example i sited at my airport should have included the following info ,the pilot was perplexed and shocked that a aircraft could actually fly without a com and transponder.
no i did not give him a hard time as i am pro aviation and have been flying 50 years and my long talk with these guys might have given them some insight.
i just sold both of my go fast,far and in the clouds aircraft, both were overflowing with the electronic wonders .and i always had a second pilot either fly and look or knobdick all or the electronic goodness while i flew and looked outside.
i wonder sometimes if this site is a subredit

 

[Dan Thomas]

I was almost run down in the pattern by a student fooling with the gizmos. On downwind, going against the flow, yet. Accidents are caused by a chain of errors, and in this case he didn't pay attention to the other traffic (everybody was on frequency), or the windsock, and didn't look outside while in the vicinity of an airport, where most midairs happen. I had to scramble out of his way.

There is such a thing as distraction. It's killing thousands every year on the roads and it will kill people in the air, too, eventually. The sky is big and the airplanes are few so the numbers will be small, but do any of us want to be one of them?

 

[Silvaire]

I'm similar, started flying in 1969 and now, 47 years later, I've regressed back to owning a Champ and a Luscombe. And I'm fine with that but honestly, in this day and age with todays technology there's no real reason to fly NORDO. Both of my planes have an electrical system because frankly I don't wanna get out and hand prop the damn things and I also have a little Vertex handheld that'll fit in your shirt pocket. I mean - phone calls and light signals? pfftt...what's the point?

FWIW I do agree with you about the overabundance and over-reliance on gizmos however.

 

[Rex Kramer]

"I have been into class b,c,and d airports in my cub . a simple call ahead to the cab ,circle cab,use light signals works every time"

So essentially you're using a crapier version of a radio (calling ahead via a voice communication system that is lacking actual real time communications) but are chastising people who have radios? Makes sense.

 

[Lachlan]

If everyone has fancy electronics to do all of the "flyin' 'n spyin'" for them, what's the point of windows? A "glass cockpit" has been around since the first cabin airplanes, if you think about it. Look out the "glass" and enjoy flying instead of playing video games. Those new avionics are there to increase situational awareness, not substitute for it. If you're cruising along and following the altitude rules for your heading then you shouldn't be an invisible danger to anyone. When I am in a busy airspace I fly with my navs and strobes on. Landing light within 10 miles of the airport, at least. Be safe out there. Help each other out. Look out, look down, look up, look out. If it's a VFR day and you're not flying at IFR altitudes then you have no excuse to not look outside. If it's an IFR day then the amount of sneaky traffic will be way down, and in the busy places you'll be separated.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I'm a gizmo-loving guy, and I am absolutely in love with my glass cockpit. I've had ADS-B since the moment it was available, and think doing HITS approaches are way cool.

That said, I flew all the way home from Oshkosh two years ago with the radios OFF. 1,400 miles of beautiful, uninterrupted silence.

Now, as it turned out, I did this because my alternator kept tripping off line, and I was conserving my battery -- but the point is that it was legal and safe to fly across the US of A without talking to another living soul. After decades of enduring the machine gun chatter of ATC, it was a quasi-religious experience.

I am incredibly grateful that we live in a country where that is still allowed. If this freedom means putting up with stubbornly NORDO curmudgeons in the pattern once in a while, it's worth it!

 

[Rykymus]

It's got nothing to do with what level of tech you have in your cockpit. It's about responsibility. No radios or electrical? Take extra precautions to stay out of the way of others, knowing that they are not aware of your presence due to lack of radio calls. Got loads of tech in the cockpit? Make sure you aren't overly distracted by it and keep your eyes outside. No reason why high-tech and no-tech can't operate safely in certain air spaces. Perhaps not all air spaces, but some.

But if that was the private field owned by the OP, I'd have that other pilot's ass for trespassing for sure.

 

[Everskyward]

Curious how people who claim they were "almost run down" by others playing with their electronic devices know that that was the reason. There were pilots who flew patterns the wrong way, etc., long before there were ipads and glass cockpits in small airplanes.