Is this Pilot a Jerk?

Captain

Captain

Final Approach
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First Officer
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Okay, here's a real life, no kidding I was there, story.

I'm telling it now as the involved airline is defunct (Atlantic Coast Airlines (ACA)).

There once was a pilot named Ray Kinnery Walley. He was a fairly senior pilot at ACA. This particular pilot had a bit of a disorder in hind sight. As a J-41 Captain he had a flight with female FO. During the cruise phase of the flight a passenger in the front row noticed something peculiar and summoned the Flight Attendent. The FA came over and asked what was the matter?

The passenger pointed to the top of the cockpit door where there was about a 2 or 3 inch gap. On the cockpit side of the door there was a placard mounted on the ceiling and from the passengers angle the flight attendant could see what the passenger and seen. Through the gap and in the reflection on the placard she (and the pax) could clearly see the First Officer's head in the Captains lap...doing exactly what you guessed.

So there's an investigation and the end result was a letter for the Captain's file and the FO got fired. You see, she had been there for less than a year and was still on probation. The union (ALPA) fought for the Captain and not the FO.

But that's not the end of the story,

A few years later Captain Ray Kinnery Walley was on an overnight in Roanoke (KROA). Now he was a CRJ Captain. He and his FO (Ryan) went out drinking with their FA (name withheld). The FA started to not feel so well and the two pilots helped her to her room where she vomited and blacked out.

She awoke and found her bra laying next to her and her underwear around her ankles. The Captain was laying naked next to her and the FO was there too. She remembers the FO running out of the room when their eyes met.

She yelled at the Captain to 'GET OUT' and called her supervisor and the local police. The police took DNA from Ryan (the FO) but it was not a match. Ray Kinnery Walley proclaimed his innocence and refused to give a DNA sample.

He was arrested and went to trial. He was found guilty and received a suspended 5 year jail sentence after serving 30 days in jail and 5 years probation.

But that's not the end of the story,

Ray Kinnery Walley moved back to Georgia where he was convicted for 'aggravated sexual battery and child molestation'. This happened after I was familiar with the situation but he appealed the verdict and that's how I found out about that.

Turns out he was upset that the prosecution in his ROA rape case wanted to use the sexual misconduct as evidence AND he was upset that the Georgia DA wanted to use his rape conviction (plead 'no contest') in his child molestation case. Poor guy!

Anyway, it's obvious that Ray Kinnery Walley is way beyond 'Jerk'. But is Ryan a jerk?

I ran into Ryan 3 or 4 years ago. I knew he was the FO but had at that time only heard rumors. He was flying corporate in a Citation X as I recall...still the FO.
 
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Guess I'm just telling a story from my previous life. I guess my new avatar reminded me of times gone by.
 
Jesus Rich, you are on me like white on rice!

'and that's how I found out about that' refers ONLY to the preceding section of text dealing with the sexual battery and molestation. That happened AFTER he was in jail and moved to Georgia. He was no longer with my company so how would I have known? Pretty obvious I thought.

Could you please examine why you feel the need to seek out and discredit everything I say? Do you truly think I'm 14 or not a pilot? ...still? For the love of god...
 
Actually, I was reading with interest (even looked up the link to findlaw), but was intrigued by the "I found out" comment. To me, it wasn't obvious what the "that" was that you were referring to. Still puzzled, though. You were there. But you weren't the captain. You obviously weren't the FO... See where I'm puzzled?

As to whether you are really a pilot, I do have some doubt, but won't say that you're not. You just seem to talk about an awful lot of experience for as young as you look in one of the pictures that you had posted at some point. Call me cynical, but I don't believe everything I read on the internet. ;)
 
I believe he's saying he was at the company at the time, at least for the ROA incident. It made quite a stir as you can imagine. The BJ incident was also very famous. The FAs all knew about the plastic "mirror" the document holder made, that's for sure. As the story goes, the FO in that BJ stunt got fired from USAir for lying about getting fired from ACA.

I know, or at least am acquaintances with, the FO from the ROA incident. Haven't seen him in forever.

Rich, Captain is most assuredly a pilot. I recognize his avatar from our company boards back in the day. That picture there is probably close to 10 years old.
 
Rex Kramer said:
I believe he's saying he was at the company at the time, at least for the ROA incident. It made quite a stir as you can imagine. The BJ incident was also very famous. The FAs all knew about the plastic "mirror" the document holder made, that's for sure. As the story goes, the FO in that BJ stunt got fired from USAir for lying about getting fired from ACA.
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Now I understand. Thank you.

Rex Kramer said:
Rich, Captain is most assuredly a pilot. I recognize his avatar from our company boards back in the day. That picture there is probably close to 10 years old.
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Thank you. In that case, Cameron, I owe you an apology. Will you accept?
 
The story goes Ray and the BJ girl were dating. They were flying together and decided to join the 1/2mi high club since the J41 pit is on the small side and has column mounted yokes. Anyway, she gives him the attention any captain deserves and is caught by the FA. Company fired both of them for safety issues. Ray had union protection, the FO did not since she was on first year probation. Ray eventually got his job back (with back pay if I remember right). Then of course this crap in ROA happens a couple years later (which Ryan was cleared of any wrong doing btw).

ACA had a great group of people, but there were a few turds in the punchbowl. Hell the #1 guy left an engine running on a standup and had to come back to the airport from the hotel to shut it down. He also nearly put an Airbus in the dirt in MCO. Bad enough that he was knocked back to FO for six months.
 
Rex Kramer said:
The story goes Ray and the BJ girl were dating. They were flying together and decided to join the 1/2mi high club since the J41 pit is on the small side and has column mounted yokes. Anyway, she gives him the attention any captain deserves and is caught by the FA. Company fired both of them for safety issues. Ray had union protection, the FO did not since she was on first year probation. Ray eventually got his job back (with back pay if I remember right). Then of course this crap in ROA happens a couple years later (which Ryan was cleared of any wrong doing btw).

ACA had a great group of people, but there were a few turds in the punchbowl. Hell the #1 guy left an engine running on a standup and had to come back to the airport from the hotel to shut it down. He also nearly put an Airbus in the dirt in MCO. Bad enough that he was knocked back to FO for six months.
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They were a great group. Too bad the Indy thing went up in smoke. Still, it was nice to stick it to UAL.

I'd heard MC left the engine running TWICE. First time he was in the van and the station called him and he wouldn't go back so the station called to company.

Of course that's what I had heard and we know how stories get blown up. I wonder what MC is doing now? I can't imagine flying for a living. I don't think he ever made it back to the left seat either. Do you hear otherwise?
 
Presidents get blow jobs, just about every male on earth has had at least a few of them in their lives, so why in heck can our society not accept what has been going on since the first woody in a cave. There is even a temple in India devoted to blow jobs.

Why on earth would anyone seriously give a rats patooty about a little on auto pilot hanky panky in a cockpit? Hell, why the heck did they call it a cockpit in the first place?

The pilot was not a jerk, nor was his FO, they are humans, why is that such a crime?
Nobody was endangered, the plane did not fall out of the sky, nothing happened.

The whole thing is nothing more than busy work for gossips and desk jockeys.

-John
 
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Is this his picture:

AirplaneMovieOttoPilotInflatable.jpg
 
John Baker said:
Presidents get blow jobs, just about every male on earth has had at least a few of them in their lives, so why in heck can our society not accept what has been going on since the first woody in a cave. There is even a temple in India devoted to blow jobs.

Why on earth would anyone seriously give a rats patooty about a little on auto pilot hanky panky in a cockpit? Hell, why the heck did they call it a cockpit in the first place?

The pilot was not a jerk, nor was his FO, they are humans, why is that such a crime?
Nobody was endangered, the plane did not fall out of the sky, nothing happened.

The whole thing is nothing more than busy work for gossips and desk jockeys.

-John
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While that may be true to some extent, a certain amount of professionalism, especially while on duty, is required. Off duty, if you and another want to enjoy each other's company, have fun.

On the job, the focus is the work. That's what you are paid to do and that's what the passengers are trusting you to do.
 
Captain said:
  • He and his FO (Ryan) went out drinking with their FA (name withheld).
  • two pilots helped her to her room where she vomited and blacked out.
  • She remembers the FO running out of the room when their eyes met.
  • The police took DNA from Ryan (the FO) but it was not a match.

is Ryan a jerk?
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I don't think he's a jerk for going drinking, helping FA to her room, running out of the room, or offering a DNA sample.

Is there something else he's alleged to have done?
 
Aztec Driver said:
While that may be true to some extent, a certain amount of professionalism, especially while on duty, is required. Off duty, if you and another want to enjoy each other's company, have fun.

On the job, the focus is the work. That's what you are paid to do and that's what the passengers are trusting you to do.
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You are absolutely correct......if you lived in a perfect world.

A darkened cockpit, the contraption is on auto pilot, she has her hand on your....uh... leg.....well actually....that is kind of perfect......isn't it?

-John
 
Steve Foley said:
I don't think he's a jerk for going drinking, helping FA to her room, running out of the room, or offering a DNA sample.

Is there something else he's alleged to have done?
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I'm having a hard time with why he was in the room post rape if he was not some how part of it. Running out when he saw that she saw him sort of backs that up.
 
John Baker said:
Presidents get blow jobs, just about every male on earth has had at least a few of them in their lives, so why in heck can our society not accept what has been going on since the first woody in a cave. There is even a temple in India devoted to blow jobs.
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India has just been added to my "must visit" list.
 
Captain said:
I'm having a hard time with why he was in the room post rape if he was not some how part of it. Running out when he saw that she saw him sort of backs that up.
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I'm having a hard time passing judgment based on the facts provided. We are told the captain was convicted and sentenced, but we don't know why. Maybe it was drunk driving. It is left to the reader to assume that the conviction was related to a rape, but that's never spelled out.

If I assume that the captain was convicted of the raping the FA, there are more questions unanswered.


  • Did a rape occur?
  • Was FO present at the time of the rape?
  • Was FO awake or passed out at the time of the rape?
  • Did FO participate in any way in the rape?
  • Did FO witness the rape?
  • Was FA awake or passed out at the time of the rape?
  • Was the FO charged as an accomplice?
  • Why or why not.
  • Did the FO testify at trial?
  • What was the substance of his testimony?


So based on the above, maybe all three passed out and in the middle of the night captain woke up and raped FA while she slept. That doesn't make FO a jerk.

Or maybe FO held her down while captain raped her, and FO used a condom while he raped her. That would make him a jerk.

Or somewhere in between.
 
The link provided most of that info. Captain plead 'no contest' to charge of rape.

FA stated she woke up, saw the FO, he ran out and then she blacked out again.

FO was never charged.


I suppose that's all there is to say about the FO. He wasn't charged. I guess the DA figured her testimony about seeing him wasn't credible? I dunno. I don't think it was ever explained why he was there. I asked him directly and he reply was, 'I can't talk about it'. That's all I know.

Maybe this was a poor 'is this guy a jerk' topic. I admit I sorta had to bang a square peg through a round hole to make it work.
 
Captain said:
Maybe this was a poor 'is this guy a jerk' topic. I admit I sorta had to bang a square peg through a round hole to make it work.
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Especially since we're not referencing his pilot actions as what makes him a jerk or not.

Insufficient information to really make much of a call. My gut says jerk.
 
Captain said:
The link provided most of that info. Captain plead 'no contest' to charge of rape.
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The link contained no more information on the actions of the FO than your original post. It did clear up the charges, but all of my questions were based on that assumption. The link answered none of them, so my answer stands: Not enough information to decide.
 
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