Is this person a veteran?

J

JOhnH

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Times are tough. A lot of people can't pay their bills. But if you have a pet that you love, and that pet gets sick or injured, you take it to the Veterinarian and promise your life to pay if they will just save that pet you love. I own that veterinary hospital and we probably have about 50 accounts in excess of $300 that are several months behind. Some are over $1,000.

I have accounts where I feel I was just cheated by someone that wanted something for nothing and have no intention of paying. Some other people come in every few weeks or months and give me $5 or $10 or whatever they can. It is heartbreaking to take their money. But it would also be heartbreaking for me to go out of business.

Some of these people are veterans. I have decided to forgive the entire invoice for any veterans that owe me money. But how can I determine who they are? If I have a SS number or Driver's license, can I look up their military status? I plan to let them know in a Christmas Card. If I just ask them they will all be veterans. And a fire will have destroyed all their papers.
 
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This is a great thing you're doing. I know how I felt when my Nikki got cancer 2 years ago and I was very grateful to the veterinarian, surgeon, and oncologist who gave me another year and a half with her that I wouldn't have had otherwise. It's tough when the pet you love needs treatment you don't have the means to pay for. Thanks for helping them out.
 
All veterans have discharge papers called DD214. If it were me I would have them prove it first. Certainly, they would understand. Copies of their DD214 are available free on line if they have lost them.

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/

That is extraordinarily nice of you.
 
That is a wonderful gift! More power to you!

Can't help on the verification of veteran status however, there has to be someone here that knows how.

Gary
 
The DD214 is the way to go.

Be aware you may alienate some non-veterans if you send out a notice to everyone saying "veteran's debt forgiven". As an alternative I suggest you put something innocuous in the notice such as "If you're a veteran, please call us about a special offer". Then ask them to come by with their DD214.

I bet two things will happen. You'll be surprised by how many vets refuse your offer, and you'll feel really good about the results.
 
TMetzinger said:
The DD214 is the way to go.

Be aware you may alienate some non-veterans if you send out a notice to everyone saying "veteran's debt forgiven". As an alternative I suggest you put something innocuous in the notice such as "If you're a veteran, please call us about a special offer". Then ask them to come by with their DD214.

I bet two things will happen. You'll be surprised by how many vets refuse your offer, and you'll feel really good about the results.
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:yeahthat:
 
Easier than looking up DFAS paystubs or verifying -214's would be asking to see CAC cards. Check expiration date and look for the active duty wording on the top right corner. It probably can be faked by someone who has just left AD, but generally it is a pretty hard credential to forge. There is a chip and it is only given to folks with either AD status, or folks who are contractors (which would be also indicated in the top right). And yeah, that is a really cool thing you are doing.
 
35 AoA said:
Easier than looking up DFAS paystubs or verifying -214's would be asking to see CAC cards. Check expiration date and look for the active duty wording on the top right corner. It probably can be faked by someone who has just left AD, but generally it is a pretty hard credential to forge. There is a chip and it is only given to folks with either AD status, or folks who are contractors (which would be also indicated in the top right). And yeah, that is a really cool thing you are doing.
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Didn't have CAC's back in the day. :wink2: But if you have one, it is a good check.

Great idea and thanks.

Cheers
 
From what I read the OP isn't offering free service to vets. He's offering to forgive money owed by dead beat vets. Those people walked into his shop and accepted service with the expectation of payment and didn't pay. For whatever reason the OP feels okay forgiving the debt IF they were really active duty.

Im a vet too and I pay what I owe. I feel sad some of my 'brothers and sisters' don't. Vets, IMO, deserve a debt of gratitude. They deserve our thanks. But they also owe debts they incure.

Btw, I have no idea what a CAC card is. I'm pretty sure I don't have one.
 
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35 AoA said:
Easier than looking up DFAS paystubs or verifying -214's would be asking to see CAC cards. Check expiration date and look for the active duty wording on the top right corner. It probably can be faked by someone who has just left AD, but generally it is a pretty hard credential to forge. There is a chip and it is only given to folks with either AD status, or folks who are contractors (which would be also indicated in the top right). And yeah, that is a really cool thing you are doing.
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I'm 20 yrs AF, retired before CAC cards. I work for a DoD contractor and still don't need a CAC card for what I do.

But I do have my old school retired ID in my wallet. Non "retired" but recent veterans from combat duty, may not have a card in their wallet. Vets from WWII or Vietnam may not have a card to carry and may have lost their DD-214.
 
Captain said:
Btw, I have no idea what a CAC card is. I'm pretty sure I don't have one.
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A CAC card is a modern day ID card, with picture, and other data. Also contains a computer chip with a metal section, can be inserted into special designed computer keyboards or other "reader" that verifies who you are for access to certain military records functions, online training, electronic signature etc.

Can also have your medical records, shot records etc for deployments.
 
35 AoA said:
Easier than looking up DFAS paystubs or verifying -214's would be asking to see CAC cards. Check expiration date and look for the active duty wording on the top right corner. It probably can be faked by someone who has just left AD, but generally it is a pretty hard credential to forge. There is a chip and it is only given to folks with either AD status, or folks who are contractors (which would be also indicated in the top right). And yeah, that is a really cool thing you are doing.
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Why would he care if they were active duty? He wants to check for veteran status. I didn't consider myself a veteran until I left active duty. You turn in your CAC card and get issued a old time ID card upon retirement.
 
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Captain said:
From what I read the OP isn't offering free service to vets. He's offering to forgive money owed by dead beat vets. Those people walked into his shop and accepted service with the expectation of payment and didn't pay. For whatever reason the OP feels okay forgiving the debt IF they were really active duty.

Im a vet too and I pay what I owe. I feel sad some of my 'brothers and sisters' don't. Vets, IMO, deserve a debt of gratitude. They deserve our thanks. But they also owe debts they incure.

Btw, I have no idea what a CAC card is. I'm pretty sure I don't have one.
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Gotta agree with the Captain here. I'm a Vet who's served in two different wars and expect no special treatment for that. Being a Vet doesn't grant us immunity from paying our bills. Also these Vets that you are helping could have been dirt bags while they were in. It's obvious they can't manage their finances so who knows what other problems they have. Oh and believe me we get plenty of freebies as well. College, flight school, VA loans, medical, dental, etc.. Shoot I know people who make more in disability (no injuries) than people making for minimum wage.

So to the poster, while your intentions are honorable, Vets are no different than any other customer. We are simply a reflection of America. Treat us no different than a fire fighter, nurse, or a police officer. We're not Saints and should be held accountable just like every one else.
 
Captain said:
From what I read the OP isn't offering free service to vets. He's offering to forgive money owed by dead beat vets. Those people walked into his shop and accepted service with the expectation of payment and didn't pay. For whatever reason the OP feels okay forgiving the debt IF they were really active duty.

Im a vet too and I pay what I owe. I feel sad some of my 'brothers and sisters' don't. Vets, IMO, deserve a debt of gratitude. They deserve our thanks. But they also owe debts they incure.

Btw, I have no idea what a CAC card is. I'm pretty sure I don't have one.
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I guess I wasn't clear. I am trying to make a real effort to separate out the deadbeats that intentionally stiffed me, be they veterans or not. This was prompted by a client that needed over a $1,000 worth of treatment for his cat. He agreed to pay $50/week. He made the first 5 payments and was late on the 6th. I called him at his work and they told me he had been layed off. But he did come in the next week with $25. He didn't even tell me that he lost his job. For the next few months, he came in and paid a few dollars at a time. In August he was about three payments behind so I sent him a letter. The letter was returned, Unable to forward. He came in two days later with $5 and apologized. He said he lost his house. He could have just squatted there while they foreclosed but he didn't feel right doing that if he couldn't make his payments. So he was living in his car. He has been in a few times since then with $5 or $10. His bill is now down to about $550.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have about a dozen cases like this, and dozens more that are not quite as bad, I would just write it off. But I can't write them all off. So I have decided to try to identify which ones are veterans and make this my Christmas present to them.

The other point I want to make is that he NEVER asked me for any sort of discount. This is MY idea. Maybe it is selfish on MY part. I would be trading the angst and frustration of trying get blood out of a turnip in exchange for that "Warm and fuzzy feeling" that will make me feel better. I will probably forgive this guy his debt even if his is not a veteran.

I like Tim's idea though. Thanks.
 
Never heard of a veterinarian who doesn't expect payment up front! Or before the surgery or what not! You are nice
 
The Real Problem is the scum bags who pretend to be a Veteran who never served a day. Thanks for offering a discount, that is a great jesture. I really wish people are more honest! But the reality is there are plenty of people who lie, and don't feel an ounce of guilt...these people have a serious Karma issue, but since they do not care, I'm sure they dont believe in karma either.

That is all...
 
Velocity173 said:
So to the poster, while your intentions are honorable, Vets are no different than any other customer. We are simply a reflection of America. Treat us no different than a fire fighter, nurse, or a police officer. We're not Saints and should be held accountable just like every one else.
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I truly admire and respect both yours and the Captain's position on this. But I come from a family full of veterans, including several that have been very successful since leaving the service, and some not so successful and one very haunting suicide. The suicide was a Vietnam vet that would be about the same age as the guy I described. He was a "tunnel rat" in 'Nam and told me it was worse after he came home than it was there. Had I been him, instead of taking my own life there would probably have been a few dead hippies at the airport or at my friend's memorial service.
 
marcoseddi said:
Never heard of a veterinarian who doesn't expect payment up front! Or before the surgery or what not! You are nice
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There are more of us than you might think. But those clients don't go home and post it on Yelp. And the worst thing a client can do if they need our help is to demand that we "owe" it to them and yell in front of other clients that if we didn't love money more than their animal we would do it for free. They can hit the road. But when faced with an animal that is going to die because the owners pockets are empty, I am either going to help them or close my business.
 
You could include a note that states:

"As a thanks for veterans' service to our country, a benefactor has offered to pay the overdue balance of any veterans who are customers of XYZ. If you are a veteran and have an overdue balance, please contact us this office".

You don't have to identify yourself as the benefactor.

You may want to contact Diane Sullivan at the Mass School of Law at Andover. She administers the Shadow Fund, which was originally founded to raise funds for a veteran who's dog needed surgery. See http://mslaw.edu/verdict-2/
 
Steve Foley said:
You could include a note that states:

"As a thanks for veterans' service to our country, a benefactor has offered to pay the overdue balance of any veterans who are customers of XYZ. If you are a veteran and have an overdue balance, please contact us this office".

You don't have to identify yourself as the benefactor.

You may want to contact Diane Sullivan at the Mass School of Law at Andover. She administers the Shadow Fund, which was originally founded to raise funds for a veteran who's dog needed surgery. See http://mslaw.edu/verdict-2/
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Nicely done! :yes:

Why can't I think of stuff like that? :dunno:
 
I'm a vet from RVN; no CAC card. Wouldn't know what it was. I'm mixed about some things offered. Mostly, I pay bills like anyone else, but it nice to get some recognition for service. I have a Purple Heart license plate that the state charges less for; I think it's very thoughtful. I can access airports free with it and sometimes, I just pay, sometimes I use the freebee. Most things, I don't even acknowledge I'm a vet, but it's very nice to see the change in appreciation. When I left RVN, things were very different and some looked down on vets. I had that on job resumes after leaving active duty and had several recommend I delete it. Best, Dave
 
Whoa there gents. Forgive me, I guess a couple beers and being tired didn't do well for reading comprehension. He in fact did specify "veterans" so my bad, I was just thinking along the lines of the standard active duty discount/deals that a lot of businesses have. But yes, veteran status would not be indicated by a CAC card, either then or now (aside from folks who are still active).
 
Geico266 said:
All veterans have discharge papers called DD214. If it were me I would have them prove it first. Certainly, they would understand. Copies of their DD214 are available free on line if they have lost them.

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/

That is extraordinarily nice of you.
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And usually, when the person separates, the debriefing officer advises the veteran to stop by their domicle or legal courthouse and have a copy of their discharge records filed. Thus, the inquisitor merely has to ask the Clerk of the Court to verify that the record exists, avoiding the hassle of asking for a replacement 214
 
35 AoA said:
Easier than looking up DFAS paystubs or verifying -214's would be asking to see CAC cards. Check expiration date and look for the active duty wording on the top right corner. It probably can be faked by someone who has just left AD, but generally it is a pretty hard credential to forge. There is a chip and it is only given to folks with either AD status, or folks who are contractors (which would be also indicated in the top right). And yeah, that is a really cool thing you are doing.
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Assumes that the individual is ACTIVE rather than VETERAN, in which case a DD2 is just as valid, if not moreso
 
oldShar said:
Assumes that the individual is ACTIVE rather than VETERAN, in which case a DD2 is just as valid, if not moreso
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Well there we get into a word war of semantics......does "veteran" imply service in a war or does it simply imply having once served in the military? There are guys on active duty who are veterans of several wars.....are they not "veterans"? There are guys who are out of the military who once served in a war (wars), and then there are guys who are "veterans" (by mil accounting status) who are out but never served in a war. IMHO the term "veteran" can mean different things to different people.
 
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35 AoA said:
Well there we get into a word war of semantics......does "veteran" imply service in a war or does it simply imply having once served in the military? There are guys on active duty who are veterans of several wars.....are they not "veterans"? There are guys who are out of the military who once served in a war (wars), and then there are guys who are "veterans" (by mil accounting status) who are out but never served in a war. IMHO the term "veteran" can mean different things to different people.
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How about the guys that never were in a declared war but were shot at and have a body count?
 
I think for purposes of this thread a 'Veteran' is a person who served in the US armed forces at some point in their life. Honorable discharge being a major plus if not still active...
 
Why not just ask? I think you'd be better off handling the situation on a case-by-case basis anyway, so this would be a chance to talk to the individual and help make up your mind. Then if you decide to waive the rest of the bill, paid for by an 'anonymous donor', that person becomes your best word-of-mouth advertisement ever.
 
Matthew said:
Why not just ask? I think you'd be better off handling the situation on a case-by-case basis anyway, so this would be a chance to talk to the individual and help make up your mind. Then if you decide to waive the rest of the bill, paid for by an 'anonymous donor', that person becomes your best word-of-mouth advertisement ever.
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I might be able to do that using the anonymous donor gambit. But if I ask them directly they will lie. If I ask for proof after they lie, they will be offended. If they are not a veteran, they will accuse me of discrimination.

I am not trying to get exposure or advertising out of this. But I don't want a bunch of hard feelings because I offer it to some people, and not others. I have found that the adage "No good deed goes unpunished" way too often. Just look how much discussion and difference of opinion I have fostered here just asking the question.
 
35 AoA said:
Well there we get into a word war of semantics......does "veteran" imply service in a war or does it simply imply having once served in the military? There are guys on active duty who are veterans of several wars.....are they not "veterans"? There are guys who are out of the military who once served in a war (wars), and then there are guys who are "veterans" (by mil accounting status) who are out but never served in a war. IMHO the term "veteran" can mean different things to different people.
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Yes sir you are correct. Doesn't matter if you've retired after 40 yrs or on day one of an enlistment. Still considered veterans. Popular misconception is you must be out to be called a veteran. Nope. Don't even have to go to combat to attain the title.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yes sir you are correct. Doesn't matter if you've retired after 40 yrs or on day one of an enlistment. Still considered veterans. Popular misconception is you must be out to be called a veteran. Nope. Don't even have to go to combat to attain the title.
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I didn't mean to stir up an argument on the definition of the word "Veteran". To me, it doesn't matter. If they served, even if they were drafted back during the dark days when we had a draft, they are worthy. It's supposed to be a Christmas present for gosh sakes. Not an attack on our system of government and forced servitude.
 
I asked a veteran friend today how he would prove it. He said he has a VA medical card but the best way is a DD214. He also said that many places give veterans discounts on things and he has shown his VA card often. However, if you are not in the VA medical program you would not have this card and would need to show a DD214.
 
JOhnH said:
I might be able to do that using the anonymous donor gambit. But if I ask them directly they will lie. If I ask for proof after they lie, they will be offended. If they are not a veteran, they will accuse me of discrimination.

I am not trying to get exposure or advertising out of this. But I don't want a bunch of hard feelings because I offer it to some people, and not others. I have found that the adage "No good deed goes unpunished" way too often. Just look how much discussion and difference of opinion I have fostered here just asking the question.
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It's tough trying to be a nice guy.
 
JOhnH said:
The other point I want to make is that he NEVER asked me for any sort of discount. This is MY idea. Maybe it is selfish on MY part. I would be trading the angst and frustration of trying get blood out of a turnip in exchange for that "Warm and fuzzy feeling" that will make me feel better. I will probably forgive this guy his debt even if his is not a veteran.

I like Tim's idea though. Thanks.
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Sounds like a fair trade, that warm fuzzy feeling? Worth more than cash, it's how God pays you for doing the right thing.
 
JOhnH said:
I didn't mean to stir up an argument on the definition of the word "Veteran". To me, it doesn't matter. If they served, even if they were drafted back during the dark days when we had a draft, they are worthy. It's supposed to be a Christmas present for gosh sakes. Not an attack on our system of government and forced servitude.
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No argument. Just backing up 35 AOA on what a veteran is. As he said if you have any customers that claim they're active duty veterans, just kindly ask to see their ID or "CAC" card. It's a high tech little card with their picture on it and a micro chip that holds personal information. If they're retired then ask to see their retirement ID card. Heck of a lot easier than having them bring in their DD-214s
 
Be aware that there are people who aren't military who have CAC cards. Not likely that you're going to have a problem with that in this case, but all CAC cards are not created equal. (Read them.)
 
denverpilot said:
Be aware that there are people who aren't military who have CAC cards. Not likely that you're going to have a problem with that in this case, but all CAC cards are not created equal. (Read them.)
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Correct. It will say "active duty" in the top right corner, and there will be some form of a military paygrade/rank portion in the lower left below the picture if the person is AD military. For the OP, the CAC card is also the way that we log onto our work computers and such, so the contractor types get one as well.
 
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